Weight Loss concern

[aitchbe]

my four hens are really skinny. when i pick them up their breast bones stick out. the energy level seems fine, they look ok but seem to be molting a bit right now, poop looks normal. i've never checked for worms etc. i did cut back on treats so that they would eat their regular food since egg production has been down. is there a recommendation for food to increase weight? they get a dry layer feed with some oyster shell mixed in right now. i give a handful of sunflower seeds and scratch grain in the morning, and maybe some leftover bread or lettuce from the house whenever it is available. very concerned.

 

[trilyn]

Do you leave food out for them all the time-chickens will eat, but they will not gorge themselves like a dog. It's okay to leave food out all the time. Hopefully someone else will hop on here soon!! Good luck!

 

[aitchbe]

yes, feed is available at all times

 

[threehorses]

First, you'll want to eliminate the possibility of parasites - both worms, and external parasites like lice and mites. Both can make chickens lose weight.

Examine the bird carefully on her skin, feathers, etc for lice, mites, their eggs, anything that moves. They're almost microscopic so use a flashlight and do it on a light colored sheet so maybe you'll see things on the sheet if you rumple their feathers.

Pay careful attention around the vent and behind the neck.

If you have mites/lice you'll need to use a treatment (not prevention method like DE/cayenne) for the mites on the bird and off. Poultry Dust is easy to apply and reapply in the 14 days or so when the eggs hatch.

Second, if you haven't wormed them yearly, it's recommended.

For adult birds who have never been wormed, particularly those who are thin, I like to start off with Wazine first because it kills roundworms (the most common worm of chickens) and requires retreatment. The reason I like a LESS effective wormer first is just in case the birds have a heavy parasite load about which I don't know.

As a former vet tech, I know very well that animals can have worms without you ever seeing one in their droppings.

I also know that the best way to tell is by having a vet do a fecal egg count (not just a fecal) but not many people can get their vets to do it.

So we worm first with a lighter strength limited spectrum wormer like piperazine 17% (wazine 17 brand for example). Don't bother with puppy/kitten formulations unless you 're great at math.

You worm them once, don't eat their eggs or meat for 2 weeks. It's designed for retreatment. So follow up wither with the wazine or, better yet, a more strong broad spectrum wormer like ivermectin, ,etc.

The reason I personally recommend the weak wormer first is that I've known poultry and other animals that went into shock when being initially wormed with the strong wormer because of the dying parasites inside of them. So I do the traditional light/hard worm method for the first time.

Then I just worm once or twice a year with ivermectin or another very broad spectrum one-time wormer. You can use DE (human grade only) or cayenne as others do in between to help prevent heavy parasite loads.

So if you decide to worm, that's the way I'd recommend it personally.

In the mean time no less than 90% of their food should be their laying pellets because of their calcium needs. YOu can give them a cup full of corn or oats to help build their body condition up. Oats have a little more protein. (Whole oats). But sometimes corn chops are easier to get from the feedstore without buying 50 pounds of them.

Make sure your girls have both a source of grit AND oyster shell or the prepared mixture if you're feeding whole grains. Oyster shell will dissolve while grit will only wear down. So Oyster shell doesn't always do the full job granite grit or similar will.

I'm noticing that a lot of feedstores now carry manno pro brand granite grit as well as their oyster shell. So if that's the oyster you use, look for the grit. Or ask for pigeon grit. Great stuff.

You can boost the absorbtion of the feed by using probiotics to increasee the bacteria in your girls' guts. Bacteria literally are the workers that feed your bird. They line the digestive tract and also help ward off illness.. But most importantly they finish digesting what the gizzard breaks down, secrete vitamins, make enzymes which make food particles into something absorbable, etc etc. They will help your birds use more of their food and resist more 'bugs' in their gut. I like plain yogurt for its simplicity. One teaspoon per adult bird mixed with crumbles usually works. Or you can mix it with babyfood applesauce and crumbles, or boiled egg yolk, etc. Anything to tempt them to eat it.

If you have them you could alternatively use acidophilis capsules/tablets. Crush the tablets or empty the capsules. don't use in water - use on foods.

If they were my birds, I'd rule out external parasites. Then I'd consider worming if you haven't. Then boost their nutrition with a daily LIGHT treat of corn or oats (not scratch) for condition after their worming. Definitely use the probiotics for the day you worm - maybe a couple of days afterwards. Otherwise use weekly for weight gain.

I hope this helps!

 

[aitchbe]

thanks so much for the detailed reply.

so where does a person in a major metropolitan city find the worming meds? is there a recommended online source?

i had ruffled feathers to look for mites/lice but didn't look really closely. i'll pull out a sheet and try your method. can the med for that be purchased online too?

one of the posts i read about adding weight suggested increasing protein with fish or catfood or kelp meal. do you concur?

i gave the girls yogurt yesterday and today. can i give too much?

 

[aitchbe]

Oh, and they free range all over my back yard. do i still need grit? i thought that the dirt in the yard was sufficient.

 

[threehorses]

Yes, they still need dirt for free ranging. You can probably get your meds, your wormer, and your grit all at the same place. Good granite grit is sold in small airtight bags now by MannaPro online at various places. They never had that before - I had to go buy a huge bag of pigeon grit and then be stuck with the rest of 50 pounds of it. lol I almost died when I went to a feedstore once and saw this pretty little bag with a chicken it, tiny perfect for a small flock. /sigh

The best choice is both oyster shell and pigeon or the granite grit, mixed. Oyster shell dissolves (which is how they get the calcium from it) but the granite is much harder. So the birds can pick which they need - Ca or grit.

Again available in small MannaPro bags.

Smith Poultry I've heard has good prices. You can buy piperazine wormer there in a small container, ivermectin or wormazole (I like ivermectin better personally) for the follow up wormer or to worm with later this year if you just do wazine twice. Permethrin dust for mites in the bedding and on the bird (or for the bedding if you use ivermectin for the mites).

http://www.poultrysupplies.com/index_files/page0016.htm

Others might have favorites, too, to add.

As for the addeds, I've used kelp meal before with great success but more for overall condition. Cat food I personally dislike because of the ingredients, but you could try it I suppose.

Were it my flock, I'd switch the scratch to whole oats for the fat, the added protein, and because their casings apparently cleanse the gut and help the good bacteria in the gut. A few people use that for conditioning show birds without making them just flat out fat - but conditioned weight. They're a remarkable additive to the diet. All of my birds here get whole oats more so than corn products. They love them.

I've used fish meal before, but it tends to go rancid. A good kelp meal is wonderful, but don't buy the garden kind. Buy a human grade kind. YOu can even buy Source micronutrients for horses (seaweeds/kelps) which I feel is the best seaweed/kelp type product around. They make a pelleted one that you can put a bit in the feed with the other pellets and see if they like it. But there are other kelp sources online that are foodgrade. I really like kelp/seaweed personally. It won't make them fatter, but does help them get into condition. Also love the black oil sunflower seeds you're using.

On the yogurt, you can give too much. But it's a bit difficult. For right now since you're trying to improve condition, you can give just every other day and still get an effect from it. The protein, fats, ca/phos/D balance in it are all great for conditioning and over all health.