I was wondering if anyone here had heard of the weight loss method of egg hatching. I read this on the Files section of a Yahoo Serama group. I guess serama eggs can be very touchy to hatch because of their large surface to mass ratio. (they are small and evaporate easily.) Anyhow, I copy and pasted it here. there are two other files that go with it, but this explains the method. Any ideas, theories about it? One poster was saying she was having problems with some marans eggs not hatching because of the extra pigment inhibiting the evaporation of the eggs and having waterlogged babies hatch that did not live, IF they hatched at alll...
The Water Loss Method of Egg Hatching
The Weight-Loss Method and Spreadsheet. Developed by HS Wong and is made available to members of Seramas for use by members only. Please respect my
intellectual ownership by always mentioning my name as the author
and Seramas as the group from which you have obtained information on the
use of the weight-loss method. Questions on the Weight-Loss Method can be posted to me via the Group. I shall try to answer.
Weight-Loss Method ("WLM")
1.. A Word About Thermometers
The right temperature is crucial to hatching success. When I first began
incubation, in my endeavour to get the "right" temperature, I must have
bought over 2 dozens thermometers. I have most types available in the
market - mercury, alcohol, digital to 2 decimal points, digital to one
decimal point, those dial type with a probe that you stick into the
incubator, you name it, I bought it. I ordered them from all over,
from Japan, UK and from the States.
Most of the thermometers are on the shelf now as I have discovered
that the kind of thermometer available for incubation use in the market
is not accurate and that what is important is the thermometer's ability
to read changes to the temperature accurately, not so much the right
temperature. Let me explain.
I have discovered that for each incubator, we must have one or two trial runs
to arrive at the right temperature as measured by a particular thermometer. Say
I have a new forced air incubator and a new thermometer. I would set it as
recommended at say 99.5F. If the trial batch of eggs pips internally at Day 20,
I will run another batch at say, 99.7F. If the second batch then pips
internally at Day 18 or Day 19, I will then mark that thermometer and that
incubator as 99.7F. Thus I will have an incubator which will read 99.5, another
at 99.6 and yet another 99.9. But if I were to use a scientific thermometer,
chances are all will be measuring 99.5F.
B. Introduction to the WLM
There is very little literature on the Weight-Loss Method. Books generally
agree that an egg must lose up to 13.5% of its weight optimally. From
experience, I have found that the range of weight-loss is fairly wide, from
10.5% to 18%. In this range, if the temperature is right, the embryo will
hatch. I have found that embryos can withstand too much weight-loss better
than too little. Eggs losing about 9% and less will have a low rate of
hatching. Eggs losing up to 25% of their weight have hatched successfully. This
may account for the reported high rate of hatching using the Dry Method since
the dry method would cause more weight-loss than otherwise.
I weigh eggs on the day I set the egg, marking that day as Day 0. I target the
egg to lose 13.5% of its weight by internal pip ("IP") day, which generally is
Day 18 or Day 19.
C. Methods of Weighing
I have only used two methods. The first method is to weigh each individual egg.
You do this for expensive or valuable eggs. I do it for serama eggs. I use a
scale, which can measure up to one decimal point, and I prefer a metric scale.
Since we are really measuring the weight of an egg against itself, no
conversion of measurement is required. Thus a metric scale is preferable
because of the smaller units available. You are keeping track of how many units
of weight it has loss, so the smaller the units available the better. Some of
my serama eggs weight a mere 12gms and losses of weight per day can be as
little as 0.10gms. That's 0.42oz and 0.004oz respectively. A full size chicken
egg of say, 48gms, losing about 0.36gms per day, is 1.69oz and 0.01oz
respectively. You can see that to obtain a scale measuring in ounces to that
accuracy will be expensive.
The second method that I have used is to measure in groups. I will place 10
eggs or 20 eggs and then average them out. Example, I will place 10 eggs
measuring a total of 485.3 gms and work out the weight loss required per day
which will be 3.6gms, or 17.12oz and 0.13oz respectively. Work based on the
average for one egg ie, divide the preceding 485.3gms by 10 eggs to arrive at
the average weight per egg. This way, when you toss out two or three eggs due
to infertility, you just have to divide the total weight by the number of eggs
left.
If your scale cannot measure to that accuracy, you can increase the number of
eggs to 15 or 20 numbers.
Your scale need not be accurate in absolute terms. What is important is that it
can measure changes to the weight of the eggs being measured. We are applying
the same principle as that being applied to the thermometers in my opening
paragraph. This is a pragmatic solution to the question of costs for small
farmers.
Note that the larger the number of eggs you measure at one go, the greater the
chances of inaccuracies coming in, and the lower the rate of hatching.
To sum up,
o The preferred method of weighing eggs is to weigh individually.
o Metric scales are preferred to imperial scales
o Weighing eggs by groups or batches is possible but always divide by the
number of eggs to arrive at the average weight per egg.
o The larger the number of eggs per batch the greater the chances for error.
D. Methods of Recording
There are two methods of recording the data, manual recording or by way of a
spreadsheet. Using a spreadsheet that I have developed has the added advantage
that you can "forecast" the weight loss of an egg or a batch of eggs and take
remedial action days or weeks ahead in a timely manner. Manual recording can
be tedious and may be alright for the initial learning period. But once you
are using the method on a regular basis, you really should use the spreadsheet.
I. Base Data
The basic data that you will collect to work on is as follows:
a. weight of egg / batch of eggs on the day you set the egg. I normally write
on the egg a code for the egg, the date I set the egg, and its weight using a
pencil. You can also use a permanent marker pen.
b. The daily or periodic weight of the egg preferably taken at or around the
time you first weigh the egg on the day you set.
Using the above data, you work out the following information:
i. the Required Weight of the egg by Internal Pip Day
ii. the Required Weight Loss per day
iii. the Required Weight of the egg every day
From the above, you can work out a graph showing the Required Weight of the egg
as the days progresses to Internal Pip day.
Having established the required or ideal weight loss of the egg, you then
compare that with the Actual Weight Loss of the egg. From the daily or
periodic actual weight of the egg, you can determine whether the egg is losing
too much or too little weight and adjust humidity accordingly.
II. SAMPLE BASIC DATA 1
Egg No.: A1 (Serama)
Date Required Weight Notes / workings
Day 0 12/09/00 18.02 gms * Actual weight on setting
Day 19 01/10/00 15.59 gms *18.02gms - 13.5%
Weight Loss Required: 18.02 x 13.5% = 2.43 gms *The egg must lose 2.43gms by
Day 19
Est. Weight Loss Per Day:2.43gms/19 = 0.128gms *The egg must lose about
0.128gms per day
III. SAMPLE WORKING SHEET 1
Day No: Day 7
Date: 19/09/00
Actual Wt: 16.43gms
Notes / Workings
Required W-L: (18.02 - (7 x 0.128) = 17.12 gms *The egg should weigh
17.12gms on Day 7
Required W-L %
(17.12 - 18.02)/18.02)x100 = - 4.99% *The egg should lose
4.99% of its weight
by Day 7
Actual W-L %
(16.43 - 18.02)/18.02)x100= - 8.8% *The actual
loss is 8.8%
Comments: The difference between the Required and Actual is - 3.88% The
egg is losing too much weight and humidity must be increased to slow down the
loss.
The above is an illustration of the information you can arrive at from the
Basic Data you have collected for each egg or each batch of eggs. You don't
have to use percentages if you do not wish to. From the base data, at any
point during the incubation process you can determine the progress.
This type of information is important for serious breeders who may wish to know
whether a certain hen is laying strong eggs, or whether a new feed is affecting
egg quality, etc.
*A note on the Internal Pip Day.
On Day 18, if your temperature settings are at optimum levels, you will see a
little dent poking into the air cell. I call this the Initial Internal Pip.
Normally on Day 19, you will actually see the beak in the air cell. I call
this the Full Internal Pip Day. I use this day as the target day for the egg
to arrive at its optimum weight. Thereafter the chick will still lose weight
but it will not affect its viability.
E. MANUAL RECORD KEEPING
I. Sample Data Card or Record
You can keep a data card or sheet for each egg or batch of egg as follows:
PEN NO. A1 DAY 4 FERTILE, BUT OVER BY - 0.78%, INCREASE
HUMIDITY
EGG NO. BQ3 DAY 7 VEIN GROWTH GOOD, W-L NOW 0.12%
DATE 03/10/00 DAY 12 W-L NOW + 1.8%. SHOULD BE OK.
IP DAY 15
DAY 0 DAY 1 DAY 2 DAY 3 DAY 4 DAY 5
REQ. WEIGHT 5.98 5.93 5.87 5.82 5.76 5.71
ACT WEIGHT 5.91 5.85 5.78 5.72 5.68
DAY LOSS 0.07 0.06 0.07 0.06 0.04
TEMP 99.7
HUMIDITY 55%
This is just a sample.
Once you are in "control" of each egg or each batch of egg, your breeding
becomes more "scientific" in the sense that you can now determine the egg
condition of a particular crossing, or the effects on the egg shell of a new
feed mixture. You can now take dietary or nutritional remedial action based
on "facts", ie. if an egg from a particular hen is consistently too porous, you
can come to the conclusion that its calcium uptake is poor and can specifically
treat it for the problem rather than blanket treatment of the entire flock.
F. SPREADSHEET.
The spreadsheet has the added advantage of being portable. I use an out of
production handheld, the HP200LX. The machine can store years of historical
data using Lotus 123. Secondhand units are selling for USD299 I believe over
the internet. I have uploaded a "teaching" spreadsheet at the files section of this group.
I have also uploaded an FAQ.
Please respect my intellectual ownership by not erasing the copyright mark
should you send it to friends or use it.
Ask me questions to expand on the FAQ and make it more comprehensive.
Regards
HS Wong
Kuala Lumpur
The Water Loss Method of Egg Hatching
The Weight-Loss Method and Spreadsheet. Developed by HS Wong and is made available to members of Seramas for use by members only. Please respect my
intellectual ownership by always mentioning my name as the author
and Seramas as the group from which you have obtained information on the
use of the weight-loss method. Questions on the Weight-Loss Method can be posted to me via the Group. I shall try to answer.
Weight-Loss Method ("WLM")
1.. A Word About Thermometers
The right temperature is crucial to hatching success. When I first began
incubation, in my endeavour to get the "right" temperature, I must have
bought over 2 dozens thermometers. I have most types available in the
market - mercury, alcohol, digital to 2 decimal points, digital to one
decimal point, those dial type with a probe that you stick into the
incubator, you name it, I bought it. I ordered them from all over,
from Japan, UK and from the States.
Most of the thermometers are on the shelf now as I have discovered
that the kind of thermometer available for incubation use in the market
is not accurate and that what is important is the thermometer's ability
to read changes to the temperature accurately, not so much the right
temperature. Let me explain.
I have discovered that for each incubator, we must have one or two trial runs
to arrive at the right temperature as measured by a particular thermometer. Say
I have a new forced air incubator and a new thermometer. I would set it as
recommended at say 99.5F. If the trial batch of eggs pips internally at Day 20,
I will run another batch at say, 99.7F. If the second batch then pips
internally at Day 18 or Day 19, I will then mark that thermometer and that
incubator as 99.7F. Thus I will have an incubator which will read 99.5, another
at 99.6 and yet another 99.9. But if I were to use a scientific thermometer,
chances are all will be measuring 99.5F.
B. Introduction to the WLM
There is very little literature on the Weight-Loss Method. Books generally
agree that an egg must lose up to 13.5% of its weight optimally. From
experience, I have found that the range of weight-loss is fairly wide, from
10.5% to 18%. In this range, if the temperature is right, the embryo will
hatch. I have found that embryos can withstand too much weight-loss better
than too little. Eggs losing about 9% and less will have a low rate of
hatching. Eggs losing up to 25% of their weight have hatched successfully. This
may account for the reported high rate of hatching using the Dry Method since
the dry method would cause more weight-loss than otherwise.
I weigh eggs on the day I set the egg, marking that day as Day 0. I target the
egg to lose 13.5% of its weight by internal pip ("IP") day, which generally is
Day 18 or Day 19.
C. Methods of Weighing
I have only used two methods. The first method is to weigh each individual egg.
You do this for expensive or valuable eggs. I do it for serama eggs. I use a
scale, which can measure up to one decimal point, and I prefer a metric scale.
Since we are really measuring the weight of an egg against itself, no
conversion of measurement is required. Thus a metric scale is preferable
because of the smaller units available. You are keeping track of how many units
of weight it has loss, so the smaller the units available the better. Some of
my serama eggs weight a mere 12gms and losses of weight per day can be as
little as 0.10gms. That's 0.42oz and 0.004oz respectively. A full size chicken
egg of say, 48gms, losing about 0.36gms per day, is 1.69oz and 0.01oz
respectively. You can see that to obtain a scale measuring in ounces to that
accuracy will be expensive.
The second method that I have used is to measure in groups. I will place 10
eggs or 20 eggs and then average them out. Example, I will place 10 eggs
measuring a total of 485.3 gms and work out the weight loss required per day
which will be 3.6gms, or 17.12oz and 0.13oz respectively. Work based on the
average for one egg ie, divide the preceding 485.3gms by 10 eggs to arrive at
the average weight per egg. This way, when you toss out two or three eggs due
to infertility, you just have to divide the total weight by the number of eggs
left.
If your scale cannot measure to that accuracy, you can increase the number of
eggs to 15 or 20 numbers.
Your scale need not be accurate in absolute terms. What is important is that it
can measure changes to the weight of the eggs being measured. We are applying
the same principle as that being applied to the thermometers in my opening
paragraph. This is a pragmatic solution to the question of costs for small
farmers.
Note that the larger the number of eggs you measure at one go, the greater the
chances of inaccuracies coming in, and the lower the rate of hatching.
To sum up,
o The preferred method of weighing eggs is to weigh individually.
o Metric scales are preferred to imperial scales
o Weighing eggs by groups or batches is possible but always divide by the
number of eggs to arrive at the average weight per egg.
o The larger the number of eggs per batch the greater the chances for error.
D. Methods of Recording
There are two methods of recording the data, manual recording or by way of a
spreadsheet. Using a spreadsheet that I have developed has the added advantage
that you can "forecast" the weight loss of an egg or a batch of eggs and take
remedial action days or weeks ahead in a timely manner. Manual recording can
be tedious and may be alright for the initial learning period. But once you
are using the method on a regular basis, you really should use the spreadsheet.
I. Base Data
The basic data that you will collect to work on is as follows:
a. weight of egg / batch of eggs on the day you set the egg. I normally write
on the egg a code for the egg, the date I set the egg, and its weight using a
pencil. You can also use a permanent marker pen.
b. The daily or periodic weight of the egg preferably taken at or around the
time you first weigh the egg on the day you set.
Using the above data, you work out the following information:
i. the Required Weight of the egg by Internal Pip Day
ii. the Required Weight Loss per day
iii. the Required Weight of the egg every day
From the above, you can work out a graph showing the Required Weight of the egg
as the days progresses to Internal Pip day.
Having established the required or ideal weight loss of the egg, you then
compare that with the Actual Weight Loss of the egg. From the daily or
periodic actual weight of the egg, you can determine whether the egg is losing
too much or too little weight and adjust humidity accordingly.
II. SAMPLE BASIC DATA 1
Egg No.: A1 (Serama)
Date Required Weight Notes / workings
Day 0 12/09/00 18.02 gms * Actual weight on setting
Day 19 01/10/00 15.59 gms *18.02gms - 13.5%
Weight Loss Required: 18.02 x 13.5% = 2.43 gms *The egg must lose 2.43gms by
Day 19
Est. Weight Loss Per Day:2.43gms/19 = 0.128gms *The egg must lose about
0.128gms per day
III. SAMPLE WORKING SHEET 1
Day No: Day 7
Date: 19/09/00
Actual Wt: 16.43gms
Notes / Workings
Required W-L: (18.02 - (7 x 0.128) = 17.12 gms *The egg should weigh
17.12gms on Day 7
Required W-L %
4.99% of its weight
by Day 7
Actual W-L %
loss is 8.8%
Comments: The difference between the Required and Actual is - 3.88% The
egg is losing too much weight and humidity must be increased to slow down the
loss.
The above is an illustration of the information you can arrive at from the
Basic Data you have collected for each egg or each batch of eggs. You don't
have to use percentages if you do not wish to. From the base data, at any
point during the incubation process you can determine the progress.
This type of information is important for serious breeders who may wish to know
whether a certain hen is laying strong eggs, or whether a new feed is affecting
egg quality, etc.
*A note on the Internal Pip Day.
On Day 18, if your temperature settings are at optimum levels, you will see a
little dent poking into the air cell. I call this the Initial Internal Pip.
Normally on Day 19, you will actually see the beak in the air cell. I call
this the Full Internal Pip Day. I use this day as the target day for the egg
to arrive at its optimum weight. Thereafter the chick will still lose weight
but it will not affect its viability.
E. MANUAL RECORD KEEPING
I. Sample Data Card or Record
You can keep a data card or sheet for each egg or batch of egg as follows:
PEN NO. A1 DAY 4 FERTILE, BUT OVER BY - 0.78%, INCREASE
HUMIDITY
EGG NO. BQ3 DAY 7 VEIN GROWTH GOOD, W-L NOW 0.12%
DATE 03/10/00 DAY 12 W-L NOW + 1.8%. SHOULD BE OK.
IP DAY 15
DAY 0 DAY 1 DAY 2 DAY 3 DAY 4 DAY 5
REQ. WEIGHT 5.98 5.93 5.87 5.82 5.76 5.71
ACT WEIGHT 5.91 5.85 5.78 5.72 5.68
DAY LOSS 0.07 0.06 0.07 0.06 0.04
TEMP 99.7
HUMIDITY 55%
This is just a sample.
Once you are in "control" of each egg or each batch of egg, your breeding
becomes more "scientific" in the sense that you can now determine the egg
condition of a particular crossing, or the effects on the egg shell of a new
feed mixture. You can now take dietary or nutritional remedial action based
on "facts", ie. if an egg from a particular hen is consistently too porous, you
can come to the conclusion that its calcium uptake is poor and can specifically
treat it for the problem rather than blanket treatment of the entire flock.
F. SPREADSHEET.
The spreadsheet has the added advantage of being portable. I use an out of
production handheld, the HP200LX. The machine can store years of historical
data using Lotus 123. Secondhand units are selling for USD299 I believe over
the internet. I have uploaded a "teaching" spreadsheet at the files section of this group.
I have also uploaded an FAQ.
Please respect my intellectual ownership by not erasing the copyright mark
should you send it to friends or use it.
Ask me questions to expand on the FAQ and make it more comprehensive.
Regards
HS Wong
Kuala Lumpur
