Weird Longterm Injury

[3xhhheather]

Any help is appreciated as I’m at a loss.

Banana Bread was being treated for a bumble, after being in hospital (my mudroom) he was slowly reintroduced back into the flock. His first full day back out with everyone I’m filling water buckets, hear a commotion and see that two males are fighting (yay spring!) I move to go break it up, but at this point I can tell it’s Banana Bread and he’s getting totally beat up. I get the other goose off of him and this is where it goes sideways. He can’t walk. Like he can but only on his tippy toes and not more than a step or two. He’s also falling backwards. Into the coop he goes to hang out for the day and rest, but he’s never gotten better. He’s losing weight and some days he’s fine and can walk and other days he has to use his neck as a balance on the ground. He’s been inside my house totally isolated for over a month. His energy is good, he can move when he wants to like trying to bolt out the back door, but there isn’t the budget for a vet visit.

I feel like this is neurological like maybe he caught a wing knuckle to the head, because he can fully extend his legs which I would think rules out tendon issues, but maybe I’m wrong.

I really don’t believe it’s hardware disease as he went from fine to sideways right after this fight.

I’ve done charcoal flush, giving Super B daily and he’s getting some solo time to relax outside in the grass. I could give antibiotics but not knowing what for feels wrong.

https://imgur.com/a/tHMEp8E

 

[3xhhheather]

Just one more video I just grabbed, thanks yall!

https://imgur.com/a/8Ct82hs

 

[Jenbirdee]

he is so beautiful. @Goosebaby

 

[Goosebaby]

First thing that comes to mind is a vitamin deficiency.
Second is that it could be an injury to the spine or a stroke.
Third is it could be an infection, and lastly is that he has a complex illness, basically multiple things at once.
Metal toxicity is a possibility too but in most cases the bird isn’t alive after a month without treatment unless it was a low enough amount that they cleared it on their own, still that is another possibility.

Does it come and go? Before he lost the ability to walk did you notice him having any tremors or twitches in his legs or not able or even subtle limping?
In the last two months have you seen any red, black, pink, orange, or salmon colors in his droppings? Have you noticed any bubbly or foamy droppings or mucous in his droppings?
What feed is he on and is he still eating regularly?


The way he’s walking points to any of the things I mentioned. Without diagnostic testing it’s hard to narrow it down, but even with diagnostic testing there isn’t always a clear answer.




One of my ganders “Roxby” had these exact symptoms and he would have recurring bouts of it for a year, he’d start wobbling then eventually lose his ability to walk completely, he’d be unable to walk for a month, then inexplicably start recovering for two weeks then regress back into limping, stumbling, and then paralysis.
With him I thought it could be everything from hardware disease to low level exposure to botulism, to a spinal injury or viral infection. Vitamins didn’t help him. He also had occasional bloody, Mucousy droppings but it wasn’t consistent. Testing didn’t really help illuminate the issue in my situation except the last time that showed he had a rod shaped gram negative bacteria and possibly Giardia in his stool. That vet was a bad vet and a con so this was questionable but I went with it and bought Roxby some SMZ TMP, metronidazole, and Tylosin 100 powder.
Since then his issue has resurfaced a few times but not as severe because I treat him the moment I see that his tremor has returned. Some of my other geese occasionally show lower digestive issues but they never present neurological symptoms like he does.
Ultimately I don’t really know what his issue is besides some guesses, which are that Roxby’s immune system isn’t as strong as the others and his body reacts differently to parasitical infections, and they turn into complex infections, he gets Giardia or coccidia more severely which predisposes him to clostridium perfringens infections, which causes his intestines to become inflamed and he stops absorbing vitamins, causing the neurological problems and because he’s vitamin deficient his immune system gets further weakened which predisposes him to getting sicker easier.

Prior to his new treatment regimen He had one incident like what you described where he was wobbly but was walking and got into a fight with his brother and was unable to walk for a few weeks after that, I think his system was weak and the fight shocked him.

What your gander has may have nothing to do with what my gander has but if there’s a chance that it is a similar situation you could start him on Tylosin (which treats clostridium +some other things) and metronidazole which treats clostridium and giardia. The two together have a more powerful effect.
If coccidia is present SMZ TMP, Toltrazuril, or corid will work, Toltrazuril being the quickest and most effective.


If he isn’t eating you need to start tube feeding him, if you’ve never done it it can be daunting but it’s easier than it seems.

 

[Goosebaby]

https://birdpalproducts.com/products/tylosin-powder-for-birds?_pos=1&_sid=fed43214f&_ss=r

Tylosin 100 powder dosage is 40mg per kg twice to three times a day for 7 to 10 days.

I strongly suggest administering it with a 12 ml syringe down the throat, mixing it in the water is pointless because it’s so intensely bitter he won’t drink it on his own.

https://birdpalproducts.com/products/metronidasole-fish-capsules-200-mg?_pos=2&_sid=60cd285f6&_ss=r

Dosage is one pill in the morning and again at night for 7 to 10 days.


I suggest also giving him a liquid multivitamin like rooster booster poultry cell or poultry nutri-drench. It’s more than likely he’s deficient in multiple things and not just the B’s.

 

[3xhhheather]

Does it come and go?

He’s had a few good days where I think real progress is being made and then the next morning he’ll be back to wobbly and weak.

Before he lost the ability to walk did you notice him having any tremors or twitches in his legs or not able or even subtle limping?

Nope, he was totally fine. The limp he did have I attribute to his bumble, but that all cleared up by the time he was back outside.

In the last two months have you seen any red, black, pink, orange, or salmon colors in his droppings? Have you noticed any bubbly or foamy droppings or mucous in his droppings?

Before this his droppings were normal, now he’ll have foamy lime green but I suspect it’s because he’s not eating. On the days he does eat his droppings look fine.

What feed is he on and is he still eating regularly?

He’s getting a mash of Naturewise Allflock + kelp + sunflower seeds + ACV. His appetite comes and goes, it’s mostly not there right now.

The way he’s walking points to any of the things I mentioned. Without diagnostic testing it’s hard to narrow it down, but even with diagnostic testing there isn’t always a clear answer.

This is how I feel, I’ve taken birds to the vet in the past and nothing has ever been conclusive it’s always try a bunch of things and see :/

One of my ganders “Roxby” had these exact symptoms and he would have recurring bouts of it for a year, he’d start wobbling then eventually lose his ability to walk completely, he’d be unable to walk for a month, then inexplicably start recovering for two weeks then regress back into limping, stumbling, and then paralysis.
With him I thought it could be everything from hardware disease to low level exposure to botulism, to a spinal injury or viral infection. Vitamins didn’t help him. He also had occasional bloody, Mucousy droppings but it wasn’t consistent. Testing didn’t really help illuminate the issue in my situation except the last time that showed he had a rod shaped gram negative bacteria and possibly Giardia in his stool. That vet was a bad vet and a con so this was questionable but I went with it and bought Roxby some SMZ TMP, metronidazole, and Tylosin 100 powder.
Since then his issue has resurfaced a few times but not as severe because I treat him the moment I see that his tremor has returned. Some of my other geese occasionally show lower digestive issues but they never present neurological symptoms like he does.
Ultimately I don’t really know what his issue is besides some guesses, which are that Roxby’s immune system isn’t as strong as the others and his body reacts differently to parasitical infections, and they turn into complex infections, he gets Giardia or coccidia more severely which predisposes him to clostridium perfringens infections, which causes his intestines to become inflamed and he stops absorbing vitamins, causing the neurological problems and because he’s vitamin deficient his immune system gets further weakened which predisposes him to getting sicker easier.

Prior to his new treatment regimen He had one incident like what you described where he was wobbly but was walking and got into a fight with his brother and was unable to walk for a few weeks after that, I think his system was weak and the fight shocked him.

What your gander has may have nothing to do with what my gander has but if there’s a chance that it is a similar situation you could start him on Tylosin (which treats clostridium +some other things) and metronidazole which treats clostridium and giardia. The two together have a more powerful effect.
If coccidia is present SMZ TMP, Toltrazuril, or corid will work, Toltrazuril being the quickest and most effective.

I’m sorry to hear about Roxby, hate how these babies can go from totally fine to not overnight. I hadn’t thought to treat for coccidia but will give it a try.

If he isn’t eating you need to start tube feeding him, if you’ve never done it it can be daunting but it’s easier than it seems.

Doing prelim research on this, did you just make a soupy mash out of regular feed? I’m seeing conflicting things online like adding Pedialyte or getting some type of critical care feed.

 

[3xhhheather]

https://birdpalproducts.com/products/tylosin-powder-for-birds?_pos=1&_sid=fed43214f&_ss=r

Tylosin 100 powder dosage is 40mg per kg twice to three times a day for 7 to 10 days.

I strongly suggest administering it with a 12 ml syringe down the throat, mixing it in the water is pointless because it’s so intensely bitter he won’t drink it on his own.

https://birdpalproducts.com/products/metronidasole-fish-capsules-200-mg?_pos=2&_sid=60cd285f6&_ss=r

Dosage is one pill in the morning and again at night for 7 to 10 days.


I suggest also giving him a liquid multivitamin like rooster booster poultry cell or poultry nutri-drench. It’s more than likely he’s deficient in multiple things and not just the B’s.

Will do, thanks so much for helping me out thinking through all this <3

 

[Goosebaby]

He’s had a few good days where I think real progress is being made and then the next morning he’ll be back to wobbly and weak.



Nope, he was totally fine. The limp he did have I attribute to his bumble, but that all cleared up by the time he was back outside.



Before this his droppings were normal, now he’ll have foamy lime green but I suspect it’s because he’s not eating. On the days he does eat his droppings look fine.


He’s getting a mash of Naturewise Allflock + kelp + sunflower seeds + ACV. His appetite comes and goes, it’s mostly not there right now.


This is how I feel, I’ve taken birds to the vet in the past and nothing has ever been conclusive it’s always try a bunch of things and see :/


I’m sorry to hear about Roxby, hate how these babies can go from totally fine to not overnight. I hadn’t thought to treat for coccidia but will give it a try.


Doing prelim research on this, did you just make a soupy mash out of regular feed? I’m seeing conflicting things online like adding Pedialyte or getting some type of critical care feed.

You can use any feed but a higher protein feed is better for a recovery formula. Harrison’s recovery formula is used by alot of vets but it’s made for parrots so it comes in a small bag that amounts to about two or three feedings for a goose so one bag only lasts about a day.
An alternative I’ve used is purina 30% game bird start because it’s pretty close to the protein percentage of Harrison’s recovery formula.

You’ll need a 60ml syringe with a lamb feeding tube or any small tube you can fit on the end of the syringe.

The feed you mix with hot water to make a soupy mash, you may have to keep adding water as the feed will soak up the water and get too thick. Let it cool until it’s cool enough to stick your finger in but still warm. Then suck it up into the syringe while trying to limit the amount of bubbles, fill the entire syringe.

The easiest way to tube feed a goose is to squat over their back, not sitting on them but using your legs and body to keep them immobilized.
With one hand you apply pressure to the corners of the mouth until they open, wrap your hand around the top of the bill but without covering the nares, they have trouble biting down if you do this.
Insert the tube down HIS right side of the throat until the end reaches the base of his neck. You might see the tube slide down his right side of the throat but if not you should feel it.
Hit the plunger and then pull the tube out.

The faster you do this the easier it actually is and less stressful it is for him. The more time you allow him to think about what’s going on the more he’ll struggle and panic.

The tube will slide down easier if you moisten it with water or glycerine, applying some glycerine to the side of the plunger can also keep it from sticking.

Ideally you want to feed them 2 to 3 times a day or if they’re severely emaciated up to 6 once you’ve stabilized them.