Well Attached Udder on Doe?

[danielle2003]

Hi, I've been a member for awhile now, but haven't posted a lot lately. I recently moved from Arizona to Oklahoma...like 2 months ago. I posted mainly on chickens of course, but sadly had to sell them because of the move . I saw this category for other livestock and thought I would ask here:
So, I am wanting to buy a Nubian doeling that will have good udder structure. It doesn't need to look perfect, but pretty good.
I read it's always good to look at the dam's udder first. I found this Doe and she had a pretty bad udder....not good attachments at all, and her teats were at her hocks. Here's a picture.
The red circles are where the attachments start, which I think are way too high. Her udder sags quite a bit:

Then I found another Nubian Doe, which to me looks a lot better, but I don't know a lot about goat conformation.

This is from her first kidding:

This is after her second kidding:

So, I want to know what you all think. Does it look like a good udder to you? Would her doelings be worth buying? Thank you in advance!

 

[alwaystj9]

2nd one is better but not great. Okay for farm milking but needs to be bred up to a buck who either is known for improving attachments or who comes from a family with excellent udder attachments.
Doelings would be a crapshoot. Without knowing buck, ??
If you are buying as a pet or a home milker, okay.
If you want to improve the breed or raise show stock, find a better doe.

 

[HipMystic]

I agree, the udder on #1 is not going to hold up well at all, and unfortunately one generation isn’t going to make much difference. #2 is better but not amazing, decent for home milking but definitely not for show or anything like that. Her teats look very far apart in the second picture-udders like that are typically difficult to milk by hand.

 

[danielle2003]

2nd one is better but not great. Okay for farm milking but needs to be bred up to a buck who either is known for improving attachments or who comes from a family with excellent udder attachments.
Doelings would be a crapshoot. Without knowing buck, ??
If you are buying as a pet or a home milker, okay.
If you want to improve the breed or raise show stock, find a better doe.

I just want her as a home milker. I don't do showing or anything. I just don't want her udder to sag really low, so that she could accidently step on it, or get it in urine when she squats.

 

[danielle2003]

I agree, the udder on #1 is not going to hold up well at all, and unfortunately one generation isn’t going to make much difference. #2 is better but not amazing, decent for home milking but definitely not for show or anything like that. Her teats look very far apart in the second picture-udders like that are typically difficult to milk by hand.

These two aren't related.... they're from different farms. She would just be a home milker. I don't show.

 

[alwaystj9]

Unless it was a really good price, I would look for another.
Do you have a side pic?

 

[danielle2003]

Unless it was a really good price, I would look for another.
Do you have a side pic

Her doelings are pretty well priced. As I mentioned earlier, I don't show, just as long as she has good structure, but not expecting show quality. Those two are her kids.

 

[alwaystj9]

Is she trained to the stand now? Can you go to where she is and try milking her? If you like her and you find her easy to milk and she's healthy with good production, and the price is good, go for it. If she's expensive or not well-mannered and easy to milk, her conformation is not good enough to make up for any of that. The doelings were possibly priced high based on color or sire. Dapples add dollars!
(also: based on tail shape & hair, if you get her, she needs copper & possibly selenium)

 

[danielle2003]

Is she trained to the stand now? Can you go to where she is and try milking her? If you like her and you find her easy to milk and she's healthy with good production, and the price is good, go for it. If she's expensive or not well-mannered and easy to milk, her conformation is not good enough to make up for any of that. The doelings were possibly priced high based on color or sire. Dapples add dollars!
(also: based on tail shape & hair, if you get her, she needs copper & possibly selenium)

I live 3 hours away from their farm, so I wouldn't be able to go and see her. But, because she has kidded twice already, the breeder said she produced a lot of milk, and was easy to hand milk because of the way her teats were shaped. I wouldn't be buying her, but her doelings.
Your right, the doelings are priced higher because of the sire, he is covered in dapples, and looks like he has pretty good conformation.p
Here is his picture, when he is about 6 months:

 

[alwaystj9]

Is he registered? Do you have info on his sire and dam? I thought you were looking at the doe to purchase, you are interested in the daughters from the picture above, correct?
You don't milk ears, pendulous noses or dapples. After assessing the mama, the next thing to judge by will be the buck and you have to look at his mama's udder or her lineage/pedigree and any other offspring of his that is of production age.
And about the mama, from the shape of her udder and teats, I wouldn't think she'd be easy to milk. Her first kidding pic doesn't look too bad on teat shape but her second freshening pic has her teats pointing outward and high inside her leg which can be a pain to milk.
Below is part of an article on conformation & dairyness:



EXAMPLE of a poor General Appearance:

EXAMPLE of a excellent General Appearance:

The pictures above are from my friends Jon & Tierney Kain from Hillaire Farm and host of Ringside: Dairy Goat Podcast. Referring to general appearance he said “This first picture is one of our first doe kids born on the farm from our first year…we didn’t invest too heavily into our bucks then. Second picture is a doe kid from this year related to both our bucks who both have national champions or reserve national champions in their pedigree.”

Compare the topline and rump of the top pictured doe to the buck, Rossi. His back is not level and his rump is steep. Even setting him up perfectly in show stance will not fix this.
A strong back and level rump support the weight of the doe's udder and seriously increase the number of seasons the doe udder stays high.