wet & dry pox!- which of hodge podge, non-commercial flock to vaccinate/treat?

[jjjennejjj]

I'm sorry you are learning the hard way.

Thank you very much for your care. I have spent a ridiculous amount of time and money building a 300 SF coop with two 400 SF runs attatched on either side, and now I only have 8 in the coop and am keeping 50 chicks separated in 8 hardware cloth covered XL dog cages because I am trying to protect them from what might be unavoidable on our property. Many farm folks I know have told me I am being ridiculous, just let them be and whoever lives through it are the stronger stock. Its just hard to not care and just let nature take its course.

 

[jjjennejjj]

This

 

[jjjennejjj]

The 2 chickens i personally did necropsies on had obstructed glotises as pictured in figure 3. I will be checking my pox sick/bulging eye pullet throughout the night and will bag and refrigerate her for TAMU professional necropsy if she doesn't make it to sunlight. I also put 5 juveniles; 4 cockerels (I only need 1 rooster) and one pullet (i have 9 younger, non exposed same breed) in the coop with the 8 coop survivors to test what might happen since they have already apparently contracted and bullied through whatever this is. I still think its just fowl pox plus secondary infection, but since "secondary infection" doesn't seem to produce any specific google results, all i can do is give antibiotics to the 4 (only 1/9) deathly sick, and see what happens. I super care and am doing my best to care for these chickens. I am posting in the hopes that my struggles help someone else that may face similar unfortunate circumstances. I am a very capable human. I have raised 5 children (3 grown and on their own) I can't believe chickens have been this hard to keep well.

 

[jjjennejjj]

Well, that poor chicken died. I sent it to TAMU yesterday for a professional necropsy. The vet called me today to discuss it and ask more questions. He confirmed fowl pox, but didn't see any visible evidence of further disease, but did a throat culture because he suspects MG/MS based on my death toll of young birds.

Since, one of the breeders confirmed she had MG I assume it will be positive for that. However, the TAMU vet said it may sound cliché but in his experience any flock in Texas, commercial or otherwise, that doesn't already have MG, just doesn't have it YET. He also said he thinks many breeders don't sell MG negative chicks because most flocks already have it and when the MG negative bird arrives it gets sick within a couple weeks and the buyer wants a refund for the sick bird, when really it was the owner's seemingly healthy, but MG positive flock that made the healthy chick sick.

He spent 30 minutes answering all my questions and unofficially advising me. He repeated many times that he was not making any formal recommendations, what I choose to do with my birds and how I treat them is completely up to me, but I did press for his opinion since I am a newbie, and he is OBVIOUSLY way more knowledgable and experienced.
In the end, I have decided not to cull the birds I have left that made it through fowl pox/MG.

I also decided not to vaccinate the young, unexposed birds against MG, and will just continue keeping them separated from the coop until they are 4 months when their immune system is more mature. Then I can treat any that get do sick with Denegard vs LA200. I am also going to regularly add Chanca Piedra/Stone Breaker herbal oil to their water based on scientific research. Hopefully that will minimize future losses. Thank you so much for the state necropsy recommendation KIki! Like GI Joe says, "knowing is half the battle."

Oh also, he had never heard of chickens getting fowl pox from the vaccine, so he assumes they were exposed to it (mosquitos) before or around the same time i vaccinated them with AE poxine. So I probably will wing web vaccinate the young chicks when they are all 8 weeks.

 

[jjjennejjj]

I forgot to mention that it is possible to perform your own at-home necropsy taking detailed pictures and TAMU will review them without having to pay shipping. Of course they can't run additional testing, and you have to have the heart/mindset/stomach for it but I found that very cool.

 

[jjjennejjj]

I also did this exact same thing to my chicken, no smell whatsoever, it wasn't coryza, just backed up sinuses. Super gross, but I'm glad I learned to do it. I can't imagine how much pain and pressure a chicken with a swollen gray eye feels. It has to feel better once released!

 

[Kiki]

I'm glad you sent her.
I can't wait to see the final report...if you don't mind posting it when you get it.

 

[jjjennejjj]

Well, that poor chicken died. I sent it to TAMU yesterday for a professional necropsy. The vet called me today to discuss it and ask more questions. He confirmed fowl pox, but didn't see any visible evidence of further disease, but did a throat culture because he suspects MG/MS based on my death toll of young birds.

Since, one of the breeders confirmed she had MG I assume it will be positive for that. However, the TAMU vet said it may sound cliché but in his experience any flock in Texas, commercial or otherwise, that doesn't already have MG, just doesn't have it YET. He also said he thinks many breeders don't sell MG negative chicks because most flocks already have it and when the MG negative bird arrives it gets sick within a couple weeks and the buyer wants a refund for the sick bird, when really it was the owner's seemingly healthy, but MG positive flock that made the healthy chick sick.

He spent 30 minutes answering all my questions and unofficially advising me. He repeated many times that he was not making any formal recommendations, what I choose to do with my birds and how I treat them is completely up to me, but I did press for his opinion since I am a newbie, and he is OBVIOUSLY way more knowledgable and experienced.
In the end, I have decided not to cull the birds I have left that made it through fowl pox/MG.

I also decided not to vaccinate the young, unexposed birds against MG, and will just continue keeping them separated from the coop until they are 4 months when their immune system is more mature. Then I can treat any that get do sick with Denegard vs LA200. I am also going to regularly add Chanca Piedra/Stone Breaker herbal oil to their water based on scientific research. Hopefully that will minimize future losses. Thank you so much for the state necropsy recommendation KIki! Like GI Joe says, "knowing is half the battle."

Oh also, he had never heard of chickens getting fowl pox from the vaccine, so he assumes they were exposed to it (mosquitos) before or around the same time i vaccinated them with AE poxine. So I probably will wing web vaccinate the young chicks when they are all 8 weeks.

https://knepublishing.com/index.php/KnE-Life/article/view/1138/2916

 

[jjjennejjj]

https://knepublishing.com/index.php/KnE-Life/article/view/1138/2916

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6048077/

 

[jjjennejjj]

I got my final necropsy report today. The chicken had dry pox, wet pox, and tested positive for both MG and MS. Negative for coccidia and parasites. They are just for eggs and pets, not for show, breeding, or a business, and since I cannot be sure any future chickens wouldn't also encounter it, I decided not to cull, and now that I know which antibiotics to treat it with, hopefully I will be able to save more of the ones that get sick and/or will cull them sooner so they don't suffer.