What am I doing wrong?! Very discouraged with sick chickens.

[BigBlueHen53]

Thanks for all your responses.
Update - I brought my silkie to the vet today. They had to put him to sleep, he was suffering and not getting any better. They suspect mareks and said if it's mareks I'll have to eithenize my entire flock?!
Currently the silkie is being flown to Washington State University for a Necropsy. Hoping to hear back sooner than later. Will keep everyone updated!

Sorry to hear this. Please do keep us updated.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks for all your responses.
Update - I brought my silkie to the vet today. They had to put him to sleep, he was suffering and not getting any better. They suspect mareks and said if it's mareks I'll have to eithenize my entire flock?!
Currently the silkie is being flown to Washington State University for a Necropsy. Hoping to hear back sooner than later. Will keep everyone updated!

What's the reasoning to cull all when you are dealing with Marek's. I can see culling symptomatic or sick birds, but those that are asymptomatic or that have recovered, I don't really see the logic. Marek's lives in the environment for a long time, it's not one of the diseases you can cull all, sanitize, wait for a while and start over.

Most folks that have Marek's positive flocks manage symptoms as they arise, cull very sick birds and try to move forward the best they can. You would want to keep a closed flock, not sell/give away birds/chicks and if you do bring in newbies, bring in as chicks and most recommend vaccination of chicks moving forward.

You may want to read up on the disease. @microchick has an Article. Those that are dealing with and managing Marek's in their flocks may be able to give you some tips. @JacinLarkwell @secondtink and @Florida Bullfrog may have some input.

I'm not dismissing the heartbreak that this disease can bring and I'm sure it's all overwhelming. Do hang in there.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

What's the reasoning to cull all when you are dealing with Marek's. I can see culling symptomatic or sick birds, but those that are asymptomatic or that have recovered, I don't really see the logic. Marek's lives in the environment for a long time, it's not one of the diseases you can cull all, sanitize, wait for a while and start over.

Most folks that have Marek's positive flocks manage symptoms as they arise, cull very sick birds and try to move forward the best they can. You would want to keep a closed flock, not sell/give away birds/chicks and if you do bring in newbies, bring in as chicks and most recommend vaccination of chicks moving forward.

You may want to read up on the disease. @microchick has an Article. Those that are dealing with and managing Marek's in their flocks may be able to give you some tips. @JacinLarkwell @secondtink and @Florida Bullfrog may have some input.

I'm not dismissing the heartbreak that this disease can bring and I'm sure it's all overwhelming. Do hang in there.

Culling will not remove the disease from the property. But there are reasons to breed and reasons to cull the whole flock, it just depends on your goals

 

[microchick]

What @Wyorp Rock said.

Why throw the baby out with the bath water? Yes, if you have Marek's in your flock you will lose more birds and as a Veterinarian at The University of Missouri at Columbia's veterinary college lab told me when I asked him if I should cull my whole flock, the survivors will be truly resistant birds. He advised me not to cull my whole flock.

Thank you for mentioning my article Wyorp. I invite you to read it and see that there is life after Marek's.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

I just hatched my 5th generation from my Amish barnyard cross hens and vaccinated bantams. This will be my last hatch as I'm starting to see some birth defects and low hatch rates from inbreeding. But I've been doing this for 10 years now come next April, 9 years after discovering I had/have Marek's in my flock.

Don't give up hope whatever you do and do not cull your flock. I respectfully disagree with your vet. If you cull them, it isn't going to solve any problems. The virus is on your property, and around your property. You have to find a way to work around that fact but it can be done.

Hang in there.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I can attest that if you breed birds that never show symptoms, you can create a flock that will be generally symptom-free and in that sense beat the disease.

I have produced symptom-free birds from parents who died from it, but you have to spam a lot of chicks to get some that are asymptomatic.

When evaluating which birds are symptom free, you need to wait until their 18 month molt. Sometimes Marek’s will hang out and not show itself until the stress of the 18 month molt. Even more generally, stress seems to bring it out. Turning birds out to free range for the first time will often cause the virus to rip into high gear within a couple of weeks. That is probably why it was traditionally called “range paralysis” along with botulism. Farmers would notice a severe paralysis in many birds turned out to free range for the first time. In birds carrying Marek’s, the stress of free range aggravates the virus somehow or lowers the immune system that was previously keeping it in check.

I have had some birds show symptoms as older chicks then get over it. All of those birds died later, sometimes up to 2 years later, and produced lots of chicks prone to it. While on the other hand, I cannot recall any chicken that remained symptom-free through their 18 month molt ever showing symptoms after 18 months, and their chicks seem to be immune to it.

You can beat it. Its just a long game of you breeding your own birds and sacrificing many individuals for the genetic good of the future flock. I think Marek’s seems insurmountable for many people because they don’t rigorously breed their own chickens. Hatcheries are somewhat sterile environments and the birds they produce don’t have to be disease resistant in that setting.

 

[microchick]

I can attest that if you breed birds that never show symptoms, you can create a flock that will be generally symptom-free and in that sense beat the disease.

I have produced symptom-free birds from parents who died from it, but you have to spam a lot of chicks to get some that are asymptomatic.

When evaluating which birds are symptom free, you need to wait until their 18 month molt. Sometimes Marek’s will hang out and not show itself until the stress of the 18 month molt. Even more generally, stress seems to bring it out. Turning birds out to free range for the first time will often cause the virus to rip into high gear within a couple of weeks. That is probably why it was traditionally called “range paralysis” along with botulism. Farmers would notice a severe paralysis in many birds turned out to free range for the first time. In birds carrying Marek’s, the stress of free range aggravates the virus somehow or lowers the immune system that was previously keeping it in check.

I have had some birds show symptoms as older chicks then get over it. All of those birds died later, sometimes up to 2 years later, and produced lots of chicks prone to it. While on the other hand, I cannot recall any chicken that remained symptom-free through their 18 month molt ever showing symptoms after 18 months, and their chicks seem to be immune to it.

You can beat it. Its just a long game of you breeding your own birds and sacrificing many individuals for the genetic good of the future flock. I think Marek’s seems insurmountable for many people because they don’t rigorously breed their own chickens. Hatcheries are somewhat sterile environments and the birds they produce don’t have to be disease resistant in that setting.

Excellent post and well said, Florida Bullfrog.

I only had one bird show initial symptoms of MD at 9 weeks and that was scissor paralysis. The rest were asymptomatic until a year to 16 month of age where they were in full blown Marek's and died or were culled. I've always suspected the cockerels that died at 12 months did so because they reached full maturity and the breeding stress activated the virus.

There is a similarity here between Human herpes and Avian herpes. Think of the common cold sore in people. Most every human has been exposed to the virus. Some never show symptoms, others will have a cold sore erupt during times of high stress, either life inducing or after a cold or the flu for instance. The cold sore runs its course and then goes back into hiding.

The same thing happens in chickens only when the stress causes the Marek's virus to surface again, it kills the bird.

There is an interesting thread active here that is talking about the research being done using Chinese Skullcap to knock the virus into permanent remission:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/viable-
treatment-for-mareks-disease.1583131/page-20#post-27907037

Until they come up with a true vaccine for the disease or a viable treatment that cures it, the best we can do is breed for resistance or raise vaccinated birds which isn't a 100%guarantee on it's own and has it's own negative aspects.

There also is the idea of raising genetically resistant birds for example, Naked Necked Turkens or Egyptian Fayoumi and staying away from highly susceptible breeds like Buff Orpingtons and Silkies. I've had pretty good luck with the Fayoumis and have 5 roosters that are cross breeds that are over 5 years of age now and going strong.

So like I said, hang in there. It is possible to breed for resistance. You have two members right here who have done so.