What colors do you see?

[careeka22]

Do you see both as blue or one blue one lavender? Is there really a way to tell or just have to see them grow? Father is Lavender Orpington mother is a California White Leghorn. Both were wing-sexed male almost 2 weeks old. The super light one just has me stumped because there should no way be Lavender. Obviously mom carries blue. Opinions? I'm keeping a blue female, temped on the light male but already keeping too many!

 

[sylviethecochin]

I think it's more likely that Dad carries blue, personally. I can't tell blue from Lavender in chicks. Maybe @The Moonshiner or @nicalandia can?

And I doubt feather-sexing would work with that cross. Feathering speed is sexlinked, but to get the sexable chicks, it should be fast-feather male over slow-feather female; however, Orps are usually (but not always) slow-feathering and CA whites are mutts. And I believe that feather-sexing has to be done within the first three days of hatch.

 

[BreanneRN]

Isn't there always some individual variation even in the same colors? IMO, the genes that create color in chickens are many and complicated, causing multiple influences when paired together. In blue/black/splash, I have seen almost totally white splashes and dark gray with lavendar and blue appearing splash marks. Blues can be almost black, or charcoal, or lighter gray. I am not well informed in color genetics, but those are my personal observations. Don't guess I will ever know as much as I would like to, but I really love all that potential for variation! Who doesn't love a colorful surprise in an extraodinary, unique bird?

 

[careeka22]

I think it's more likely that Dad carries blue, personally. I can't tell blue from Lavender in chicks. Maybe @The Moonshiner or @nicalandia can?

And I doubt feather-sexing would work with that cross. Feathering speed is sexlinked, but to get the sexable chicks, it should be fast-feather male over slow-feather female; however, Orps are usually (but not always) slow-feathering and CA whites are mutts. And I believe that feather-sexing has to be done within the first three days of hatch.

Ah ok thanks! I did try to sex on day 2 (hatched them myself) but wasn't sure if it would work. They seemed to match with the sexing charts and I was thinking but may work due to being part leghorn but not sure. I'm tempted to keep the light one just to see how he/she turns out. Curious does tail length have anything to do with sex? Those I thought were male all have tiny tails. I do this dad may carry blue because I got a blue chick from my EE hen also.

 

[careeka22]

Isn't there always some individual variation even in the same colors? IMO, the genes that create color in chickens are many and complicated, causing multiple influences when paired together. In blue/black/splash, I have seen almost totally white splashes and dark gray with lavendar and blue appearing splash marks. Blues can be almost black, or charcoal, or lighter gray. I am not well informed in color genetics, but those are my personal observations. Don't guess I will ever know as much as I would like to, but I really love all that potential for variation! Who doesn't love a colorful surprise in an extraodinary, unique bird?

Good point! This is only my 2nd time hatching from my own flock and I was shocked on the colors based on "basic" genetics and the color calculator. The same pairing also gave 3 yellow chicks, one with black spots I'm thinking my actually be a splash. But CA whites can have spots too so who knows! I'm keeping that one too.

 

[sylviethecochin]

Ah ok thanks! I did try to sex on day 2 (hatched them myself) but wasn't sure if it would work. They seemed to match with the sexing charts and I was thinking but may work due to being part leghorn but not sure. I'm tempted to keep the light one just to see how he/she turns out. Curious does tail length have anything to do with sex? Those I thought were male all have tiny tails. I do this dad may carry blue because I got a blue chick from my EE hen also.

Tail length can have to do with sex. It depends on the parents whether it does or not.

Crash course in genetics:

Sexlinkage:

Feathering speed is sexlinked. Males carry two long sex chromosomes, females carry a long and a short sex chromosome. The short sex chromosome does not carry everything the long one does.

We're going to use K and k (slow and fast-feathering) and make Dad carry (k/k) and Mum carry (K/+.) The + sign means that this gene does not exist because the chromosome is too short to contain it.

A male chick inherits the long chromosome (K) from Mum, and a long chromosome (k) from Dad. He'll be (K/k) and be slow-feathering.

A pullet chick, on the other hand, will inherit the short chromosome (+) from Mum. It won't carry that gene. She'll inherit the long chromosome from Dad (k) She's (k/+) and feathers in quickly.


Double Factoring:

In some cases, including feathering speed, two copies of the gene are more powerful than one. If you look at a barred bird of any breed, the male is almost always lighter in colour than the female is. This is because barring is sexlinked. The male carries two copies of barring, and the female only carries one (it's missing from the short chromosome that all female birds carry.) Two copies of the gene = more barring than one copy.

If both parents are slow feathering (K/K) and (K/+) all of the chicks will inherit K. However, the males will inherit two copies and feather out more slowly than the females do. This is especially evident in the tail length of a week-old bird.

Random chance:

Say you have a rooster that carries (K/k). His chicks, no matter the sex, will inherit one long chromosome from him. This chromosome might carry K, or it might carry k. If mum's k (fast-feathering) then statistically, half of your chicks will be slow-feathering, no matter what sex they are. If Mum's K, then absolutely all of your male chicks will be slow-feathering, and half of your females will be slow-feathering as well.

In conclusion:

If you plan on keeping this rooster, keep his chicks for a few weeks and see which turn out to be male and female. From the results, you should be able to tell what genetics your rooster carries, and if you can feather-sex his offspring in the future.

 

[careeka22]

Tail length can have to do with sex. It depends on the parents whether it does or not.

Crash course in genetics:

Sexlinkage:

Feathering speed is sexlinked. Males carry two long sex chromosomes, females carry a long and a short sex chromosome. The short sex chromosome does not carry everything the long one does.

We're going to use K and k (slow and fast-feathering) and make Dad carry (k/k) and Mum carry (K/+.) The + sign means that this gene does not exist because the chromosome is too short to contain it.

A male chick inherits the long chromosome (K) from Mum, and a long chromosome (k) from Dad. He'll be (K/k) and be slow-feathering.

A pullet chick, on the other hand, will inherit the short chromosome (+) from Mum. It won't carry that gene. She'll inherit the long chromosome from Dad (k) She's (k/+) and feathers in quickly.


Double Factoring:

In some cases, including feathering speed, two copies of the gene are more powerful than one. If you look at a barred bird of any breed, the male is almost always lighter in colour than the female is. This is because barring is sexlinked. The male carries two copies of barring, and the female only carries one (it's missing from the short chromosome that all female birds carry.) Two copies of the gene = more barring than one copy.

If both parents are slow feathering (K/K) and (K/+) all of the chicks will inherit K. However, the males will inherit two copies and feather out more slowly than the females do. This is especially evident in the tail length of a week-old bird.

Random chance:

Say you have a rooster that carries (K/k). His chicks, no matter the sex, will inherit one long chromosome from him. This chromosome might carry K, or it might carry k. If mum's k (fast-feathering) then statistically, half of your chicks will be slow-feathering, no matter what sex they are. If Mum's K, then absolutely all of your male chicks will be slow-feathering, and half of your females will be slow-feathering as well.

In conclusion:

If you plan on keeping this rooster, keep his chicks for a few weeks and see which turn out to be male and female. From the results, you should be able to tell what genetics your rooster carries, and if you can feather-sex his offspring in the future.

This is amazing, thank you!! I'm obsessed with genetics and trying to figure everything out with chickens and coloring. This makes a ton of sense. I'd like to keep them all but 3 is our max per the hubs so going to use them a guinea pigs. As a baby he was the slowest to feather and a runt if that says anything? He's a big boy now though. I do have a barred hen and created a few SL babies one male and one female, the male is already barring and had the short feathering. Female was long.

 

[sylviethecochin]

This is amazing, thank you!! I'm obsessed with genetics and trying to figure everything out with chickens and coloring. This makes a ton of sense. I'd like to keep them all but 3 is our max per the hubs so going to use them a guinea pigs. As a baby he was the slowest to feather and a runt if that says anything? He's a big boy now though. I do have a barred hen and created a few SL babies one male and one female, the male is already barring and had the short feathering. Female was long.

I recommend this site: http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/default.html

It tells you much about chicken genetics, and it starts from the very basics up.