whitelaced red/goldenlaced do you get a blue laced red out of this?

[herechickchick]

As k your question at the coop . They are super smart about genetics.

 

[redchicken]

I tried to join but it said my email was banned I have not even been there

 

[herechickchick]

Thats odd. Email one of their administrators.

 

[Kev]

WLR cornish is due to dominant white. I don't know the history of WLR in Polish but I do know buff laced also have dominant white plus you mention there are not any BLR in Polish yet so I would assume the white lacing in your Polish is most likely due to dominant white.

If that's the case then you will not get any blue laceds. What you would get by crossing WLR with a GL is probably birds looking a lot more like WLR, except the white and red might not be exactly clear nor of the same shade of color. In fact you may even get some Buff laceds in either this cross or if the offspring are bred together.

Backcrossing back to WLR will just get you some better WLR along laced birds in more variable quality of color in the lacing and red.

Dominant white works on black pigments have much less effect on red. So basically a buff laced is simply a gold laced with dominant white. BLR is dominant white on a "red laced"- such as Dark Cornish. The red is intensified by extra genes such as Mahogany.

The poster is right in saying to get BLR you have to introduce the blue gene. I don't know the history behind wyandottes either but that is not possible. Blue is not possible from any silver x gold crossing. The "white" mentioned in "white x black= blue mating" in reality are Splash x black= blue.

 

[redchicken]

then what would you get if you bred white laced red to black or blue

 

[Kev]

It depends on what black the black chicken is based on- there's at least three "black genes", so it's often hard to tell how exactly crosses with a "black chicken" would look.

That said, WLR x black= most likely a white chicken with a few black flecks, much like a California White leghorn.

WLR x (solid)Blue-= most likely white chickens with black flecks(non-blue) and white chicken with either bluish flecks, but may have less obvious flecking or may even approach solid white.

The Mahogany & red intensifier genes from the WLR may add some red to those white chickens- may see some red on the neck, breast and wings.

BTW- a Buff laced Polish x WCB= usually an off-white shade with various amount of small flecking.

The reason white offspring shows up is because black is dominant, so the offspring will come out black.. except dominant white is also dominant and it changes black to white.

 

[Blisschick]

First and foremost, you have to have the blue gene present. If the blue gene is not present, you will not get any kind of blue chickens, whether it is complete or with other colors. The blue gene works with the black gene, and it will always express itself when present, except when masked by white.

I took this from the Rare and Laced Wyandottes group files to share here. Maybe it will give you the answers to what you are asking.

COLOR GENETICS APPLIED TO THE BLUE LACED RED

Question: What are the affects of crossing SL & GL?

Silver is a mutation of gold, but it is dominant. Silver removes all brown
(eb). Silver is also sex linked. Male offspring would show gold in the body, but
not the hackle, saddle, and tail feathers due to the Columbian gene. He does not
recommend this cross. This would not cause brassy hackle/saddle feathers.

Question: Hans Schippers stated that both UK & American birds are mixed gold &
red. Is this correct?

“I do not think there is a red that is not gold. The enhancer of red is
mahogany.
That is what makes the Rhode Island ‘Red’.”

Question: Is the Mh gene involved?

“ I don’t know”.

Question: How do buff laced & gold laced differ genetically?

Modifiers. They react with gold. He mentioned champagne & blonde, but not a
specific modifier for buff laced.

Question: What are the affects of crossing Andalusian blue to lavender?

No consistency. If you could get 1 blue and 2 lavender genes, that would tone
down the color (pastel) or porcelain-ize it.

Question: How to intensify “red” in ground color?

Select by depth of ground color and breed up.

Question: Should we cross into another breed such as RIR?

RIR is recessive wheaten. The body type is brick shape. It would introduce
structure genes and others we do not want.

Question: Does the blue gene cause brassy hackles & saddles?

No. Could be oxidation or sunburn. Selectively breed it out.

Question: Black edged lacing of andaulsian not desirable, how do we correct?

The black edging is preferred in America. It can be bred out by selection.

Question: When out crossing to blue, what is the best way to get lacing back?

Select the best F1’s and breed back to GL. This will also enrich the ground
color. Or select the best F1 male to cover the F1 females and select the best
F1’s and breed back to GL. Keep records and see which line works better. Cull
the line that does not work as well. If both lines are equal, then you can
cross those offspring.

Question: What about out crossing to white?

White is a sport of SL. The silver gene will affect the gold. (refer to the
first question) He did not recommend this cross.

Question: Why do you think the German breeders do not utilize all of split gene
offspring of the BL? ( I explained the reasoning behind the black laced and it
being lanced, but also told him I had not yet got a definitive answer on the
splash or white laced)

It appears they have a problem with the GL birds lacing. Possibly why they
choose not to use a black out of blue laced.

Question: Should a black out of BL have the bettle green sheen to the lacing?

He said this was a “Petty-ism”, “Black laced out of blue should show
bettle green.”

We concluded by discussing GL. He feels we should cross into exceptional
quality GL every 3-4 generations. He suggested Bob Coulter, friend of Claus, as
being able to locate quality GL.

I have read a lot about not using GLW for outcrossing, simply because the lacing ends up being terrible - too broad around the edges and lancing toward the end. I see this more often in my darker birds than my lighter ones. I haven't had any black laced yet out of my birds, but probably because I breed my darks to my lights, so I wouldn't get any black laced unless I bred darks to darks.​

 

[Kev]

blisschick

The blue gene works with the black gene,

No, the blue gene affects black pigmentation on the feathers with a minor effect on gold(aka brown, red). This is why you can have blue wheaten, blue tailed buff and BLR. Wheatens are not "black", only the black feathering is affected such as tail, black on hackle & saddles and so on.

Question: How do buff laced & gold laced differ genetically?

Modifiers. They react with gold. He mentioned champagne & blonde, but not a
specific modifier for buff laced.

The difference is that buff laced has dominant white as I have said in this thread. Dominant white works in a similar way to blue- it affects the black pigmentation with a minor effect on gold. Replace the black lacing on a gold laced with white.. you have a bird that looks quite a lot like a buff laced.

I personally know buff laced do have dominant white- did outcrosses with a buff laced rooster and the offspring were all white with flecking or gold and white.​

 

[redchicken]

what if you breed golden laced to blue laced red

 

[Blisschick]

It's been recommended not to do this since it causes problems with lacing and makes the red appear brassy in BLR.