A Bielefelder Thread !

[LowerBamaMama]

This is a problem in Bielefelders?  I have bantam Cochins that I try not to interfere with any more than needed.  I really try to preserve natural breeding methods even with them and will trim occasionally if needed, but I refuse to AI.  In comparison, I didn't think Bieles would have an issue there.

@treefarmer42
- Maybe the boys just have fertility issues? I guess it could happen, but two males having fertility issues seems unlikely.  Does the dominate male let the other roo breed? I have an Ameraucana roo that won't let any other roo touch his girls, that's why I ask.



On a personal note...
My somewhat good hatches turned to disaster after.  I had 8 pullets hatch and about the same in cockerels.  Then the girls started dying.  The last two showed signs of what I thought was cocci and treated accordingly.  They never showed signs of improvement and died in 2 days of their first symptoms.  There was no bloody poop either, I had thought I caught them in time.  Now, I think it was enteritis or something.  I am not sure.  I am down to three pullets and five cockerels now.  I had to buy more hatching eggs from a third source and they were just set last night.  I was going to sell off the Ameraucanas and replace them with the Bieles, now I don't think so.  These young birds have shown just how heat intolerant they are even in 80 degree weather.  My bantam Cochins fair better and show less stress than these Bieles.  I won't be giving up on the breed, but I am not going to eliminate the one pen of breeders that actually makes me some money and puts eggs in my fridge.

I'm new with chickens in general and now after the dog attack only have one pol Biel lady left about 5 mo old but all through the summer the birds seemed healthy and happy and it's hotter than the dickens here. Has it been said that they do poorly in the heat? The man I got mine from said his lay well all year round, hot or cold.

 

[DesertChic]

This is a problem in Bielefelders? I have bantam Cochins that I try not to interfere with any more than needed. I really try to preserve natural breeding methods even with them and will trim occasionally if needed, but I refuse to AI. In comparison, I didn't think Bieles would have an issue there.

@treefarmer42 - Maybe the boys just have fertility issues? I guess it could happen, but two males having fertility issues seems unlikely. Does the dominate male let the other roo breed? I have an Ameraucana roo that won't let any other roo touch his girls, that's why I ask.



On a personal note...
My somewhat good hatches turned to disaster after. I had 8 pullets hatch and about the same in cockerels. Then the girls started dying. The last two showed signs of what I thought was cocci and treated accordingly. They never showed signs of improvement and died in 2 days of their first symptoms. There was no bloody poop either, I had thought I caught them in time. Now, I think it was enteritis or something. I am not sure. I am down to three pullets and five cockerels now. I had to buy more hatching eggs from a third source and they were just set last night. I was going to sell off the Ameraucanas and replace them with the Bieles, now I don't think so. These young birds have shown just how heat intolerant they are even in 80 degree weather. My bantam Cochins fair better and show less stress than these Bieles. I won't be giving up on the breed, but I am not going to eliminate the one pen of breeders that actually makes me some money and puts eggs in my fridge.

I'm not sure if the fluffy vents issue is a problem for Biels or not, but it was my best guess for what may be interfering with fertility.

In regards to your hatch...that's awful! I'm so sorry you're having this issue! I had some serious problems with hatching eggs I bought from a breeder in Phoenix. I even drove to her farm to retrieve the eggs, and still had less than a 10% hatch rate from that batch. When she sent me a "free" half dozen more hatching eggs, only one of them hatched and the chick died a horrible death within days. It had pullorum. Since I had the necropsy performed the breeder was automatically reported to authorities, but she's still selling hatching eggs on eBay.

Biels are definitely NOT heat tolerant. I've had to cull fairly heavily among my cockerels (I hatched 6 cockerels and 3 pullets) for that very trait, and hope to be able to breed greater tolerance into my flock. If they weren't such an amazing breed, and most beloved by myself and my family, I would probably give up on them because of their heat intolerance. But...I absolutely love them, so instead I'm working on breed improvement.

I hope you have better luck with them in the future.

 

[Bine]

I think somewhere I read that the Bielefeder was breed to do good with the weather in Estern Westphalia and, trust me, hot weather just does not exist in all of Westpahlia, ..normally. This year we had the hottest summer for over 50 years and it was an disaster for my garden b/c I have no connection to the water line on my allotment, never needed one. I have rain water barrels and til this year it was sufficent b/c normally we have rain every other day.

And I am sorry to hear about all those losses and problems with eggs and chicks. I wish I could help, but my Barbus breed themselfs (I solemnly proclaimed a one chick policy, but some of my hens just don't care and entrench themselves with more than one egg in the box) and I have more chicks than I want to have.... only thing that I do is to move hen and chicks indoor, feed herbal tea and use bird sand not straw or wood chips.

 

[treefarmer42]

Good idea in regards to trimming the feathers. Never thought of that. Can't say I'm into the idea of grooming the private areas of chickens. Right now I'm thinking BIEL SOUP for Winter.
Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Sylvester017]

This is a problem in Bielefelders? I have bantam Cochins that I try not to interfere with any more than needed. I really try to preserve natural breeding methods even with them and will trim occasionally if needed, but I refuse to AI. In comparison, I didn't think Bieles would have an issue there.

@treefarmer42 - Maybe the boys just have fertility issues? I guess it could happen, but two males having fertility issues seems unlikely. Does the dominate male let the other roo breed? I have an Ameraucana roo that won't let any other roo touch his girls, that's why I ask.



On a personal note...
My somewhat good hatches turned to disaster after. I had 8 pullets hatch and about the same in cockerels. Then the girls started dying. The last two showed signs of what I thought was cocci and treated accordingly. They never showed signs of improvement and died in 2 days of their first symptoms. There was no bloody poop either, I had thought I caught them in time. Now, I think it was enteritis or something. I am not sure. I am down to three pullets and five cockerels now. I had to buy more hatching eggs from a third source and they were just set last night. I was going to sell off the Ameraucanas and replace them with the Bieles, now I don't think so. These young birds have shown just how heat intolerant they are even in 80 degree weather. My bantam Cochins fair better and show less stress than these Bieles. I won't be giving up on the breed, but I am not going to eliminate the one pen of breeders that actually makes me some money and puts eggs in my fridge.

Cocci has about 9 different strains of which only two will show blood in poop. Any time I get a new bird I immediately take fecal samples to the vet for analysis within 24 hours. I received a shipped juvenile that started showing blood in poops and diagnosed cocci but there was no knowing how long she was ill before we got her and by her 3rd week with us we had to put her down. The breeder was an "au natural" ACV and garlic user but never used vaccines or serious medication even tho NPIP certified - so now I don't get birds from all natural breeders. Sometimes you've just got to bite the bullet and resort to medicine!

Just want to kindly compare notes here. You said you have one pen of breeders that actually makes you some money and puts eggs in your fridge - were you referring to the Ameraucanas or the bantam Cochins? Our Ameraucana is a dud at laying in her 2nd year and our friend's Amer's and EEs also slowed down or stopped during our humid SoCalif weather. My Amer layed like a champ her first year and this year we got 3 eggs from her. Our two broody Silkies put out more eggs in one week than the Ameraucana did ALL YEAR! GaryDean26 in TX says he finds his smaller breeds or bantam breeds fare better in 112 degree TX heat while his heavier LF drop dead more often.

 

[Reyvaughn]

Cocci has about 9 different strains of which only two will show blood in poop. Any time I get a new bird I immediately take fecal samples to the vet for analysis within 24 hours. I received a shipped juvenile that started showing blood in poops and diagnosed cocci but there was no knowing how long she was ill before we got her and by her 3rd week with us we had to put her down. The breeder was an "au natural" ACV and garlic user but never used vaccines or serious medication even tho NPIP certified - so now I don't get birds from all natural breeders. Sometimes you've just got to bite the bullet and resort to medicine!

Just want to kindly compare notes here. You said you have one pen of breeders that actually makes you some money and puts eggs in your fridge - were you referring to the Ameraucanas or the bantam Cochins? Our Ameraucana is a dud at laying in her 2nd year and our friend's Amer's and EEs also slowed down or stopped during our humid SoCalif weather. My Amer layed like a champ her first year and this year we got 3 eggs from her. Our two broody Silkies put out more eggs in one week than the Ameraucana did ALL YEAR! GaryDean26 in TX says he finds his smaller breeds or bantam breeds fare better in 112 degree TX heat while his heavier LF drop dead more often.

I am aware of the different strains of cocci. I saw the symptoms immediately and treated with Corid. I am pretty sure now it was not cocci. It killed them to quickly, no one else in the pen with them got sick and I did not continue treatment after those two died. I've had birds for nearly 5yrs now. While I am no expert, I feel pretty well versed by now.

My Ameraucanas are my money makers. I keep any decent bantam Cochin I hatch (which are not many) and sell the culls at the local auction where I am lucky to get $2 each for. The Ams I get $7-15 for my culls - blue eggs layers sell well no matter the quality at the auction. The auction is my quick dump of any culls and extra boys. I haven't sold many eggs this year, but usually the hatching eggs sell well and I usually make enough off them to support my whole flock each year. My Ams are not the best layers, but I keep over a dozen girls at all times. With 14 girls, I rarely got less than 9 eggs a day this year. I keep new pullets each year and only keep the best hens for more than two years. I've had this flock/line since September 2011. I love how they are tolerate the heat and cold here in PA. They are the only breed I haven't lost combs and toes to frostbite during our frigid winters.
The bantam Cochins suck money from me and haven't made me one cent.

 

[Cody A]

Good idea in regards to trimming the feathers. Never thought of that. Can't say I'm into the idea of grooming the private areas of chickens. Right now I'm thinking BIEL SOUP for Winter.
Thanks for the thoughts.

I don't think trimming fluff is a good idea. Passes on the same trait to the next generation. If the eggs aren't fertile there's a good reason why and it should stop there. It's certainly not improving the breed or your flock for that matter.

 

[Chickielady]

I'm so sick! My neighbors dog JUST jumped the fence and killed my Biel roo and one of my Pullets. I text the neighbor and told her and she said that as long as my dogs go into her yard she won't do anything... I'm gonna die... My dogs have never caused any problem for her but hers come and kill two of my pets and she just shrugs it off?!?!? What is wrong with people?!?!?!?!?
*deep breaths*
THEN her dog came and knocked over my trash and drug it all over my front yard so I took a picture of the dog in the act and sent it to her... No reply... Go figure
I called my chicken man and he doesn't have any pol pullets to replace but he told me I should expect the lady to pay $50 for the pol pullet and $35 for the rooster... Fat chance
Dying

Are you kidding ?
Are you expected to just waltz down to the "Chicken Store" and buy some more ?
There is a "TIME" essence applied to poultry (and all farm animals) as the seasons go, you are out a bunch of fertile hens, and how many chicks ? It is a BIG loss, not only to your wallet, but also to your very lifespan: How many years is it gonna take til I get this generation bred & raised & fledged....????????????
And buying eggs/chicks/to raise up until you have another cockerel at least 6 mo old to begin fertilizing the hens again....that will put you back yet how much more $$$ and TIME...another year.
Some stupid people think if their dog kills your farm animals (be it a duck, chicken, pea fowl, sheep or goat) that they can just whip out their wallet & give ya $20-$40 ? how much money ~~~ just to shut you up...over $20 ? (they say are you kidding ??? Your stupid sheep cost more than $20 ??? Try to explain it is a rare & endangered St Croix hair sheep...as they walk away cussing)
You'll be lucky to get that...they have no idea how hard it is to buy, hatch & raise up quality animals ready to breed...
Most people have no idea where their food comes from, nor do they care.
Thank God & Goddess for the 4-H and FFA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chickielady]

I don't think trimming fluff is a good idea. Passes on the same trait to the next generation. If the eggs aren't fertile there's a good reason why and it should stop there. It's certainly not improving the breed or your flock for that matter.

There are few ways to breed LF Cochins (((and quite a few other breeds))), unless you DO trim cushion fluff.
In the case of Cochins (which have been here on the planet for tens of thousands of years)
Not trimming is NOT going to do anything as far as 'evolution' is concerned.
Either you trim, or artificially inseminate.
Take your pick !

Other than those 2 things, you get no fertility, and no offspring.
Please note: these {Bielefelders} are nowhere near a heritage breed, what they are is a "designer breed' which is """something 'pretty, and lays big giant eggs'""..........................................................................................................................PERIOD, repeat: this is NOT a heritage breed. Just like the broad breasted white turkey...they have been engineered.
So you may well have to help them out a bit.
That said, mine, regardless of bloodline.........................just don't have too much interest in sex at all. I have 4 bloodlines now, what I have collected from 4 parts of the United States.
Cockerel after cockerel....they are nice, SWEET mannered birds.................and each one seldoms mounts....
Sometimes one will do the dance for a hen..****************.hens seldom act impressed****************....Engineering is engineering !

 

[LowerBamaMama]

Are you kidding ?
Are you expected to just waltz down to the "Chicken Store" and buy some more ?
There is a "TIME" essence applied to poultry (and all farm animals) as the seasons go, you are out a bunch of fertile hens, and how many chicks ? It is a BIG loss, not only to your wallet, but also to your very lifespan: How many years is it gonna take til I get this generation bred & raised & fledged....????????????
And buying eggs/chicks/to raise up until you have another cockerel at least 6 mo old to begin fertilizing the hens again....that will put you back yet how much more $$$ and TIME...another year.
Some stupid people think if their dog kills your farm animals (be it a duck, chicken, pea fowl, sheep or goat) that they can just whip out their wallet & give ya $20-$40 ? how much money ~~~ just to shut you up...over $20 ? (they say are you kidding ??? Your stupid sheep cost more than $20 ??? Try to explain it is a rare & endangered St Croix hair sheep...as they walk away cussing)
You'll be lucky to get that...they have no idea how hard it is to buy, hatch & raise up quality animals ready to breed...
Most people have no idea where their food comes from, nor do they care.
Thank God & Goddess for the 4-H and FFA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's crazy that people think it's not big thing... If my dog killed her dog I'm sure she'd want some money since she just shelled out a ton having it heartworm treated... But "it's just a chicken"

The laws here (as I learned afterward from a fellow Alabamaian on this site) require that she pays for the losses caused by her dog, she's supposed to have the dog put down, and if she chooses to keep the dog and it does it again, she'd have to pay double the losses. BUT after calling the local police and animal control, I have learned that the laws are pretty much non-enforceable since they consider the financial loss caused by the dog a civil matter. The police did NOTHING and animal control told me they could only come out and check the rabies vaccinations and give her a scolding (which they never showed up to do)

So I have to pay $72 in filing fees, $13 to have her served (and that's if I do it myself through the mail. It's $24 if they sherif's deputies have to do it) to get my $85 for my two birds... $85 spent, and $85 back... (I did learn that since she's at fault, I can request she have to pay the court fees but it's a gamble because if SOMEHOW I don't win the case I'd be out $85 for fees and whatnot AND have to compensation for my chickens and have nothing but a headache to show for it)

AND HERE IS AN INTERESTING SIDENOTE... If I don't file against her for the first instance and her dog does it again, I don't get the double compensation because I didn't file the first incident. So I'm risking losing more birds with only minimal comp by NOT pursuing it

ETA: Did I mention I'm flat broke and my husband and all my family that I asked to borrow the $85 told me "They're just chickens. Let it go." ? I'm surrounded by idiots. I swanny