Advice on rats and building a new coop?

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

Could you attach pictures of your plan for the new build?

Poop doesn't fall through wire. It catches on it, slumps part of the way through and becomes very difficult to clean. Better is to make your walls and roof rat-proof with hardware cloth or metal lath securely attached to the frame and at the seams. Then keep the rats from going under the walls with an extra wide apron. Rats, in particular, will tunnel more than most species, so make the apron wider than the minimum and cover it with dirt enough that they can't see the edge or feel it when walking over it.

You may not need the hardware cloth or lath across the solid part of the walls, depending on what you use to make the walls. In your climate, I wouldn't have enough solid wall to bother with stopping the hardware/lath for it.... I'd just make a wire box with an open bottom and the apron and solid roof, then add some wind break around the roosts. This based on research (mainly Prince T Woods' open air coops for warm climates, and this website) - not based on my own experience with your climate.

If you can't build all of your runs this way because of palm trees or prices, you might consider building as much as you can this way. Then put a door or pop door between the secure run and the larger run. Put food and water in the secure part and make the door to the less secure part as unattractive as possible. Things like: furthest from any kind of shelter for the rats, raised above ground level, baffled with something like squirrel guards.

I really need to make up a new plan, when I originally drew the first one it was just basic ideas, which are now totally outdated! I don’t think I’m really going to use any of the ideas I originally had, having learnt more about coops! I thought I could insulate it and put in air conditioning !! No way. When I have a better idea of what I want to do I will definitely post the new drawing! I will need feedback from experienced folks anyway.

Open air coops do look interesting, and I want them to have as much ventilation as possible. It seems like a great idea with how hot and humid it is here. My only concern is that it’s very rainy here during spring/summer and sometimes even through winter we’ll get bad storms. Lots of potential hurricanes as well, so I want to make it as hurricane proof as possible (I even have an evacuation trailer idea… I love these chickens!). I haven’t looked into open air coops enough though, so definitely need to research more before deciding if it will work for us. One problem we have with the current setup is how it floods every time it rains, because there’s no solid walls. I don’t want them in wet conditions.

I plan on building something big enough for about 140 something chickens, at 10 hens per rooster that’s how many we’ll end up with if they indeed need 10 hens each. They may not, but I’d rather be safe than sorry and make it a little bigger. My chickens are quite small though, not sure if they’re considered bantams but definitely smaller than a lot of chickens I’ve seen. I have one bantam hen for sure. So I may be able to make it a tad smaller than the guidelines for standard chickens. I want to do rotational grazing as well, not sure if I mentioned that, so yes, many runs! Some may be less secure as you mentioned. That’s a great idea for the door. We have the land for it, the real question is if we have enough cleared land and if we can afford it!

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

I don't have experience with hot peppers against predators, only vermin.



Anything that covers the wire apron makes it less effective.

The digging predators will back up and start their dig at the edge of any barrier that they can see.

Are you saying that cinder blocks on top of the wire would make it less effective? Or only if not buried? Slightly confused, sorry!!

 

[3KillerBs]

It seems like a great idea with how hot and humid it is here. My only concern is that it’s very rainy here during spring/summer and sometimes even through winter we’ll get bad storms. Lots of potential hurricanes as well, so I want to make it as hurricane proof as possible

I suggest that you put your shelter walls on in such a way as to turn it's back on the most common storm winds. Then make removable panels or hinged storm shutters so that you can put a barrier across to block sideways rain from unusual directions when needed.

Hurricanes are problematic. My choice with my big coop (in conjunction with my husband's superior construction knowledge), was to use hurricane ties on the rafters and to have no solid wall all the way to the roof so that, we hope, wind will flow over and under the roof without creating the sort of forces that either batters the structure down or pulls the roofing off.

One problem we have with the current setup is how it floods every time it rains, because there’s no solid walls. I don’t want them in wet conditions.

With the extreme ventilation of an Open Air coop it's not actually a problem if rain gets in from time to time -- especially if you're using an active composting, Deep Litter system. Large roof overhangs shelter the vents from most rains and solid or nearly-solid walls can be turned to block the worst of the usual rains.

But if you have water collecting and pooling in the coop/run or flowing through the coop/run then what you need to do first and foremost is fix the drainage.

No amount of good coop design or excellent bedding can compensate for bad drainage that allows standing water to collect.

I plan on building something big enough for about 140 something chickens, at 10 hens per rooster that’s how many we’ll end up with if they indeed need 10 hens each.

Many people with very large flocks and particularly people with many breeding pens end up with a motel-like arrangement in the form of a long building divided into multiple pens.

Are you saying that cinder blocks on top of the wire would make it less effective? Or only if not buried? Slightly confused, sorry!!

Yes, anything on top of the wire that presents a visible barrier that the digging predators can see makes the wire apron less effective because the predator will start digging at the edge of the visible barrier.

What makes a wire apron work is that the predator cannot see and understand the wire under the mulch/grass. It thinks that it *ought* to be able to dig at the base of the wall but the ground is mysteriously impossible to dig. It can't reason out that it could try backing up and digging from a spot further out when it doesn't understand why it can't dig where it is.

But they *can* instinctively move out to the edge of a hardscape element.

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

IMO the whole thing looks fine, it just needs hardware cloth barrier to keep them out - even just doing the bottom perimeter with a skirt and maybe up about 3ft - maybe with a bent outward "lip" at the top of it they can't easily climb past, if you're not doing all the way up the walls and over the top. That there might be enough to make a sizeable impact on them getting inside.

I'd also consider getting some of those self-resetting rodent traps, such as the "walk the plank" and "barrel roll" traps and leave those out. There's a guy on YouTube with a whole channel of rodent traps and he's got great tips on baiting them and whatnot so you can get lots of them.

Rats were a big reason I built a new coop, because in my area they'd bring in the rattlesnakes; also I just hated the old setup. Before I built the new coop, I used traps and got many, but the pellet gun I got specifically for this issue was the most fun for me. Current coop has zero evidence of rodents getting into the coop as the 1/2" HC holes are the biggest gaps I have anywhere on the whole structure.

Good luck

HAHAHA. I used to LOVE hunting rats with a pellet gun! Thake GOD we don't have a rat issue where I am now. The only rats around here are pack rats. And they are easy to trap in a live trap. (Then let the dogs dispatch them.) For the OP letting dogs kill the rats is MUCH more humane than poison. It is quicker (dogs aren't like cats that like to torture and "play" with rodents.) With dogs, it is one or 2 quick shakes and it is all over for the rat. Poison is also deadly to peoples dogs, cats and wildlife that might ear the dead or dying poisoned rats.

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

I suggest that you put your shelter walls on in such a way as to turn it's back on the most common storm winds. Then make removable panels or hinged storm shutters so that you can put a barrier across to block sideways rain from unusual directions when needed.

Hurricanes are problematic. My choice with my big coop (in conjunction with my husband's superior construction knowledge), was to use hurricane ties on the rafters and to have no solid wall all the way to the roof so that, we hope, wind will flow over and under the roof without creating the sort of forces that either batters the structure down or pulls the roofing off.



With the extreme ventilation of an Open Air coop it's not actually a problem if rain gets in from time to time -- especially if you're using an active composting, Deep Litter system. Large roof overhangs shelter the vents from most rains and solid or nearly-solid walls can be turned to block the worst of the usual rains.

But if you have water collecting and pooling in the coop/run or flowing through the coop/run then what you need to do first and foremost is fix the drainage.

No amount of good coop design or excellent bedding can compensate for bad drainage that allows standing water to collect.



Many people with very large flocks and particularly people with many breeding pens end up with a motel-like arrangement in the form of a long building divided into multiple pens.



Yes, anything on top of the wire that presents a visible barrier that the digging predators can see makes the wire apron less effective because the predator will start digging at the edge of the visible barrier.

What makes a wire apron work is that the predator cannot see and understand the wire under the mulch/grass. It thinks that it *ought* to be able to dig at the base of the wall but the ground is mysteriously impossible to dig. It can't reason out that it could try backing up and digging from a spot further out when it doesn't understand why it can't dig where it is.

But they *can* instinctively move out to the edge of a hardscape element.

Thank you so much for all the ideas!!! Very helpful. I wasn’t planning on doing deep litter in the coop but would prefer to do it in one of the runs. I felt a bit more comfortable with deep bedding in the coop itself. But not sure if that’s possible with open air coops since deep bedding is a dry method?

I would prefer to have all chickens together in a big enough coop and enough run space that they should get along. I wonder why people with larger flocks separate them into smaller flocks?

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

HAHAHA. I used to LOVE hunting rats with a pellet gun! Thake GOD we don't have a rat issue where I am now. The only rats around here are pack rats. And they are easy to trap in a live trap. (Then let the dogs dispatch them.) For the OP letting dogs kill the rats is MUCH more humane than poison. It is quicker (dogs aren't like cats that like to torture and "play" with rodents.) With dogs, it is one or 2 quick shakes and it is all over for the rat. Poison is also deadly to peoples dogs, cats and wildlife that might ear the dead or dying poisoned rats.

If it is more humane I will consider it! Just sounded very frightening for them. Frightening for the chickens as well. I would be afraid a dog might try to eat my chickens We have someone who lives on the ranch here who lets their big dog roam and doesn’t secure him when they leave if they “can’t find him”. He tried to attack our chickens one morning, thank goodness the door was closed! I led him away and tried to find his owner, but of course he ran into our neighbors yard and attacked their cat, which I tried to break up and got bit by him in the process.

Thankfully I saved the cat and he had no wounds

We’re always on high alert now though, even after that he’s still come into our yard just last month and my tiny dog was out sunbathing.

 

[Cattle dog Mom]

If you were going to see if someone has ratters. (dogs) and wants to come to your place, I would have the chickens locked up.

 

[saysfaa]

Thank you so much for all the ideas!!! Very helpful. I wasn’t planning on doing deep litter in the coop but would prefer to do it in one of the runs. I felt a bit more comfortable with deep bedding in the coop itself. But not sure if that’s possible with open air coops since deep bedding is a dry method? ...

I have an open air coop and deep bedding. Rain or snow occasionally come in and get the top couple of inches wet. It dries very quickly. So it is for sure possible.

I doubt it is universally possible. As in any version deep bedding in any version of open air in any climate for any density of birds with any system of feeding and watering.

I've seen people saying it (open air with deep bedding) worked for them in the Pacific Northwest rainforest so lots of rain doesn't necessarily mean it won't work.

I don't know how far down this rabbit trail to go. Maybe a little further? I think keys for mine include how open it is in the summer, that the bedding is so deep, and what the bedding is.

 

[1chip2chicks3cheeks]

I have an open air coop and deep bedding. Rain or snow occasionally come in and get the top couple of inches wet. It dries very quickly. So it is for sure possible.

I doubt it is universally possible. As in any version deep bedding in any version of open air in any climate for any density of birds with any system of feeding and watering.

I've seen people saying it (open air with deep bedding) worked for them in the Pacific Northwest rainforest so lots of rain doesn't necessarily mean it won't work.

I don't know how far down this rabbit trail to go. Maybe a little further? I think keys for mine include how open it is in the summer, that the bedding is so deep, and what the bedding is.

What bedding do you use?

 

[saysfaa]

I tried to make it as much like a forest floor as possible. It is 12+ inches deep of: mostly maple leaves (maybe 80%), pine shavings (maybe 10%), strips of pine bark and willow bark and maple bark from when I debarked some saplings, lawn clippings, dandelion roots, twigs, a little oat straw, a bucket of compressed wood meant for pellet stoves, some hulls, dirt and ashes the chickens spread from the dust bath, handfulls of sawdust and drill curlies, other such debris.