Appenzeller Spitzhauben

[PhoredaBurds]

Maybe breeder quality? That makes sense.

 

[Sweet Coastal]

Sorry yes show quality, breeder quality and pet quality. They are all beautiful but like all chickens at least that I breed you can have perfect parents and you may only get a few show quality out of each hatch.

 

[Metella]

What's the difference between show and breeder quality ? if you breed- isn't it to breed to the Standard which is what any show uses to judge the birds ?

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Seems like the differences between show quality, breeder quality, and pet quality could be quite subjective. Some non-show birds might be very useful to a breeder, depending on their goals & what they've already got. A cockerel with a squirrel tail for instance would be immediately disqualified at a show, but may have decent crest, eye color, and spangles which could be useful to a breeder who has birds with lower tail angles. Or nice looking birds with other show/standard faults might bring valuable genetic diversity to a line whose gene pool is shallow. Or do those faults designate the birds as pet quality? "Show quality Appenzeller Spitzhaubens" is an interesting statement too as the American Poultry Association does not yet recognize them. There are a couple groups working towards Spitzhauben APA recognition, but it hasn't happened yet. The app spitz is a fantastic breed and it is wonderful so many people are working with these birds. Photographs and knowledge tho... Knowing what you are looking for and what you are looking at... That being said, I'm guessing most spitz make great pets, regardless of their crest and tailset.

 

[Sweet Coastal]

Seems like the differences between show quality, breeder quality, and pet quality could be quite subjective. Some non-show birds might be very useful to a breeder, depending on their goals & what they've already got. A cockerel with a squirrel tail for instance would be immediately disqualified at a show, but may have decent crest, eye color, and spangles which could be useful to a breeder who has birds with lower tail angles. Or nice looking birds with other show/standard faults might bring valuable genetic diversity to a line whose gene pool is shallow. Or do those faults designate the birds as pet quality? "Show quality Appenzeller Spitzhaubens" is an interesting statement too as the American Poultry Association does not yet recognize them. There are a couple groups working towards Spitzhauben APA recognition, but it hasn't happened yet. The app spitz is a fantastic breed and it is wonderful so many people are working with these birds. Photographs and knowledge tho... Knowing what you are looking for and what you are looking at... That being said, I'm guessing most spitz make great pets, regardless of their crest and tailset.

I use what I think will eventually be the SOP in the US for my designations. I have had several of my birds shown and done very well as "other" at shows. I generally go by the international equivalent to SOP to evaluate my birds. I focused on foward split Mohawk and no smudging in the Roos tale feathers as well as a non polish foward looking Mohawk in the females. Also slate colored legs. If I think hey look perfect I call the SQ. if they have some great qualities that I think could improve another breeder I call the BQ. They are all goIrgeous birds even if they are not to "standard" and may have a few technical flaws I call then PQ. I have a variety and love them all. Just my interpretation I know the US does not have a SOP yet but I think they will soon.

 

[PhoredaBurds]

I use what I think will eventually be the SOP in the US for my designations. I have had several of my birds shown and done very well as "other" at shows. I generally go by the international equivalent to SOP to evaluate my birds. I focused on foward split Mohawk and no smudging in the Roos tale feathers as well as a non polish foward looking Mohawk in the females. Also slate colored legs. If I think hey look perfect I call the SQ. if they have some great qualities that I think could improve another breeder I call the BQ. They are all goIrgeous birds even if they are not to "standard" and may have a few technical flaws I call then PQ. I have a variety and love them all. Just my interpretation I know the US does not have a SOP yet but I think they will soon.

Sounds like you've got some great standards to work with. It would be wonderful if you could add a pic of your birds in these shows to your post. You'd probably sell more eggs & chicks that way too.

 

[Metella]

Interesting .... I had only show or pet in my mind - with the idea that show had all the SOP points of interest - perhaps not perfect - but there ....

and pet being all others - with some of the pet having those fill in needed balances to add to the others ..... I get it now .... but think unless we call hatchery birds pet quality or those with obvious actual deformities .... all the other birds we might have would be breeder quality - since we are starting with good blood lines and healthy birds and are consciously trying to only produce show quality offspring ....

Anyway - thanks for the clarification - I wasn't being ? whatever - just didn't see any real functional difference - you can also have show quality dogs that wouldn't win in show - but are used in breeding programs to balance out traits .... so for my cluttered mind - it is adding another whole level for no real benefit as any one bird could be called breeder or pet - depending on the owner's flock and outlook - and not on the bird's makeup.

Got it now.

 

[PhoredaBurds]

I don't remember where I read it, but with certain breeds, show breeders will have separate pens to breed towards show hens vs show roosters. This is because some roosters which will produce SOP hens are not helpful towards SOP roosters and vise versus. Seems kinda silly that SOP would be that different with hens vs Roos, but apparently that's how it is sometimes. Also, sometimes it appears that breeding to visual standards doesn't always lend itself to genetic diversity. If we only breed the best looking birds to the best looking birds in a small, related flock, it's just a matter of time before laying ability and hatchability suffer. Breeding chickens is easy, but creating well bred chickens can be very challenging. Idk, maybe I just overthink it.

 

[Metella]

I consider that sloppy - because as you say - it is not taking the long term and the whole breed into consideration ...

In my newbie opinion - we should be breeding to consistantly produce a high number of chicks from any batch to be SOP qualified ... to have a pen to just produce roos or hens is really screwing up the breed as a whole - I think. When any new breed is produced one of the things that allows them to be a "breed" is that the parents can produce consistent offspring which can then also produce consistent offspring .....

Oh well - People do anything for blue ribbons and/or money. Too bad.

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Not sure if I'd call it sloppy. Breeding to hen standards and separately to rooster standards would require a very precise plan and good record keeping, as well as a trained eye. Think it's a way of playing the show game. Everyone's goals are a little different is what I was trying to say. Some peoples' goals include developing winning show birds. Others may have genetic diversity & utility as their main goals. It's all very subjective.