Appenzeller Spitzhauben

[Metella]

True ... very true

 

[Metella]

Speaking of Subjective - I can't visualize the tail issue ....

My interpretation of the words fails due to my own subjective way I visualize the words ...

Anyone have some pictures - more than one of a bad tail set and a more than one of a good tail set ?

I've got 2 good cocks and 3 good hens with another BQ (ha ha!) hen .... and so I can work on Tail Set with this group - since they all seem to have decent other qualities ....

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Try this link:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pou...Q7AkIIg&biw=320&bih=529#imgrc=XVuZJtZ1_dDu2M:
If that doesn't work, Google "poultry squirrel tail". There are lots of good pics out there. You're looking at the angle of the back vs angle of the tail (side view) and it should be more than 90 degrees.

 

[heritagefowl]

In reply to the conversation regarding breeding for the hen standard and the cock standard separately (called a double breeding system) I would agree that it does not seem to fit with the goal of the standard, however, from what I have read the standard as they have been written for certain breeds makes it potentially impossible to breed the perfect cocks and hens from a single breeding. This is unfortunate and is typically the result of an improper knowledge of the intricacies of the color variety before standardization. There is often disagreement, however, as to whether a double breeding system is actually needed to produce the best specimens. As an example of a breed where a double breeding system is often used, Barred Rock hens that display the correct width of barring produce cocks that are too light and cocks that display proper width of barring produce hens that are too dark. This dichotomy has led certain breeders to breed separately for correct colored cocks and hens. The breeding system for producing the best colored hens is called the pullet mating system and that for producing the best colored cocks is called the cockerel mating system.The split of Brown Leghorns into Light and Dark Brown Leghorns was the result, as I understand it, of an improper standard that could not be met by a single breeding system and the diverged pullet and cockerel lines became the two new varieties which can now be met with a single breeding systems. I hope this helps newer breeders that have not heard of these systems think more objectively about these systems. Personally I am only interested in breeding by a single breeding system as it seems the most logical and simplest system. I also believe that it should be a goal to create standards that can be met most effectively by a single breeding system.

 

[Metella]

Thanks - lots of new info for me - an openly declared newbie ...

Another reason for a single system is space - I want my breeding pairs to have have decent space to live and still be separated from the rest .... and we certainly can't all have 100 acres for such intricate breedings.

So if we want a vigerous pool of breeders - we have to make it reasonable to produce quality birds - and since the double issue isn't a health issue ..... well - I think standards can certainly be updated.

 

[Metella]

Also - I haven't seen a perfect tail set ... but I think I get what a squirrel tail is now ... is this a typical disqualification? D'Uccles seem to have this as a standard ... to me - a very upright tail makes the bird look alert and muscular - so from a pure looking at it point of view - I like the upright tail ...

What would be the reason to dq for that ? or just subjective ? I don't mind- I will breed to the standard - but if it has no real reason - it could be taken out of the stanard if the SOP is being revamped.

 

[PhoredaBurds]

Here's a decent tailset on a spitz:

Here's a squirrel tail:

The squirrel tailed bird is actually the father of the non-squirrel tailed bird. The squirrel tailed bird has much better waddle & comb shape while the non-squirrel tailed bird has uneven waddles & comb. Always something I suppose.

 

[PhoredaBurds]

In reply to the conversation regarding breeding for the hen standard and the cock standard separately (called a double breeding system) I would agree that it does not seem to fit with the goal of the standard, however, from what I have read the standard as they have been written for certain breeds makes it potentially impossible to breed the perfect cocks and hens from a single breeding. This is unfortunate and is typically the result of an improper knowledge of the intricacies of the color variety before standardization. There is often disagreement, however, as to whether a double breeding system is actually needed to produce the best specimens. As an example of a breed where a double breeding system is often used, Barred Rock hens that display the correct width of barring produce cocks that are too light and cocks that display proper width of barring produce hens that are too dark. This dichotomy has led certain breeders to breed separately for correct colored cocks and hens. The breeding system for producing the best colored hens is called the pullet mating system and that for producing the best colored cocks is called the cockerel mating system.The split of Brown Leghorns into Light and Dark Brown Leghorns was the result, as I understand it, of an improper standard that could not be met by a single breeding system and the diverged pullet and cockerel lines became the two new varieties which can now be met with a single breeding systems. I hope this helps newer breeders that have not heard of these systems think more objectively about these systems. Personally I am only interested in breeding by a single breeding system as it seems the most logical and simplest system. I also believe that it should be a goal to create standards that can be met most effectively by a single breeding system.

Excellent info!! Thank you for posting this! I agree that single breeding systems make the most sense for the individual breeds.

 

[Metella]

Yes - always something !

I suppose the angle the bird is holding their head could muddy up the issue too - having to evaluate the bird at rest? Standing at ease?

It could look one way in different poses - ha ha

 

[Faraday40]

So about what age should my Spitz start laying? Mine are 21 weeks.
I have 2 pullets that finally grew waddles & red combs about 3 weeks ago. (They hatched March 12-13th) I keep looking for new eggs, but am wondering if they're hiding them somewhere in the yard. They now hang out with the other hens - which again is another sign for new layers in my flock.

Here's one of the pullets: