Ayam Cemani Fraud?

[catface]

I can understand that! It's hard to put money into them and not get much back but I don't breed to make money. It's nice if I do, but I don't expect it. For me it's just a very expensive hobby.

 

[refamat]

So, I purchased 2 Ayam Cemani pairs from 2 different breeders.

3 of my Ayam's have black eyes & combs now that they are developed (5 months-ish).

The fourth, a rooster - has developed an off red comb(while as the other 3 have black combs) and he has orange eyes (all of the others have black eyes).

I believe that I was sold a different Ayam breed (one that has similar appearance) but isn't actually a Cemani. These have red combs/ETC. but aren't Cemani.

Any suggestions/feedback here?
>Can an Ayam Cemani even have a red comb/orange eyes?
>>If not: I feel as if I paid WAY to much from this breeder and should ask for the bulk of my money back.

Thanks,
CM

What I learned is that this is a mutation so almost anything is certainly possible. To get a "breed" it has to breed true all the time. Mutations on the other hand can and do carry previous genes which can pop up every so often depending on how they are expressed. So, you cull, for standard traits, keep the ones who throw the most all black chicks, eat the others (restaurants may find this a interesting dish and pay better than normal prices) so that the undesired expressed genes are diminished over time.

 

[CrazyHatchingLady]

I know this post is old but I thought I would put this out there for people who may still be looking for Posts like this.... I have an Pure Breed AC and it was born with white flecks in its wing (Which I love) And white on its chest that is now darkening. I also spoke with a man who owns one and it is pure as well but his has the genetic defect of red in the comb. As far as the eyes I have not spoken with anyone who has ran into that. However I have been talking to a local breeder I have made arrangement with to get a dozen incubating eggs from this spring told me that the ones who are completely black can produce AC with the genetic defects and I read ones with the genetic defects can produce all black its a genetic crap shoot. That I guess is why I don't understand why breeders Cull the one with the defects because the ones with the defects can still give them pure breed all black and the all black can still produce the genetic issues. Make sure to find out 100% sure the AC do not carry these genetic defects.... I know I was livid about mine until researching and speaking with breeders. However even if she has these defects or was pure or not to me she was worth all the pain because she is so petite and lively she gets to stay with me a little longer......

 

[drumstick diva]

Wish Pyxis would comment

 

[Inkedxoxo]

There’s a breeder somewhat near me and her rooster and hens are pretty solid she’s selling them for $50. Those that have a grey tongue or grey patches on bottom or feet she sells for $20. Last 2 photos are of mine.

 

[Inkedxoxo]

I know this post is old but I thought I would put this out there for people who may still be looking for Posts like this.... I have an Pure Breed AC and it was born with white flecks in its wing (Which I love) And white on its chest that is now darkening. I also spoke with a man who owns one and it is pure as well but his has the genetic defect of red in the comb. As far as the eyes I have not spoken with anyone who has ran into that. However I have been talking to a local breeder I have made arrangement with to get a dozen incubating eggs from this spring told me that the ones who are completely black can produce AC with the genetic defects and I read ones with the genetic defects can produce all black its a genetic crap shoot. That I guess is why I don't understand why breeders Cull the one with the defects because the ones with the defects can still give them pure breed all black and the all black can still produce the genetic issues. Make sure to find out 100% sure the AC do not carry these genetic defects.... I know I was livid about mine until researching and speaking with breeders. However even if she has these defects or was pure or not to me she was worth all the pain because she is so petite and lively she gets to stay with me a little longer......

I was told the same thing and completely agree. I’ve seen our breeders juveniles and adults. Some of their offspring have “defects” and the others don’t.

 

[Birdinhand]

I know this post is old but I thought I would put this out there for people who may still be looking for Posts like this.... I have an Pure Breed AC and it was born with white flecks in its wing (Which I love) And white on its chest that is now darkening. I also spoke with a man who owns one and it is pure as well but his has the genetic defect of red in the comb. As far as the eyes I have not spoken with anyone who has ran into that. However I have been talking to a local breeder I have made arrangement with to get a dozen incubating eggs from this spring told me that the ones who are completely black can produce AC with the genetic defects and I read ones with the genetic defects can produce all black its a genetic crap shoot. That I guess is why I don't understand why breeders Cull the one with the defects because the ones with the defects can still give them pure breed all black and the all black can still produce the genetic issues. Make sure to find out 100% sure the AC do not carry these genetic defects.... I know I was livid about mine until researching and speaking with breeders. However even if she has these defects or was pure or not to me she was worth all the pain because she is so petite and lively she gets to stay with me a little longer......

I imagine that to really get the genes down, it would take some serious study of genetics and tracking of individual birds using the punnet square method... and a lot of trial and error. we purchased a few Ball Python Morphs last spring and in the process I read up a lot of their genetics. when seeking a recessive outcome, you really have to get scientific with respect to breeding and start following the line. a normal looking animal can indeed cary the genes that result in the desired trait. many traits simply won't breed true. to end up with consistent results takes a lot of exacting study and investment. we got into fancy guppies for a while, grew out several lines and ended up with over a thousand fish. the process was costly and ver time consuming and the results were mixed and we eventually gave up when we returned from a vacation only to find the house sitter had over fed the fish and caused a massive die off. I have been tempted to get into breeding panther chameleons (worth looking up!) but have heard similar stories of people getting very frustrated with the results and ending up with a lot of unsellable animals.

 

[NevilChick]

I have researched these birds for nearly a year now and have hatched three sets from the "best" breeding stock. I don't believe there will ever be birds that will not have chicks with "defects". Even Greenfire and FoxFire (Brothers) will tell you this. The Astin Marie birds have defects. These birds aren't perfect, but they are beautiful. I am anxiously awaiting for my first hatch from my own pair this week.

 

[CrazyHatchingLady]

There’s a breeder somewhat near me and her rooster and hens are pretty solid she’s selling them for $50. Those that have a grey tongue or grey patches on bottom or feet she sells for $20. Last 2 photos are of mine.

Does the local breeder sell hatching eggs and ship them. I can not get back into contact with one I spoke to.

 

[Just some chicks]

So, I bought hatching eggs off gold feather farms. 2 Ayam Cemani bc I was cheap lol, 2 white Bresse and 3 Swedish flower. They sent me 5 extras. Only 3 Ayam Cemani and 1 White Bresse hatched. If the AC is worth so much, why are they throwing in extra eggs and I only paid $10 for each AC egg? I did notice one has a white toe nail but they usually outgrow that and turn black. Everything on these little babies is black. Anyway of getting info on their genetics and breed quality? I don’t want to accidentally rip someone off in the future if I sell any.