Ayam Cemani Fraud?

[massoumicyrus]

So, I purchased 2 Ayam Cemani pairs from 2 different breeders.

3 of my Ayam's have black eyes & combs now that they are developed (5 months-ish).

The fourth, a rooster - has developed an off red comb(while as the other 3 have black combs) and he has orange eyes (all of the others have black eyes).

I believe that I was sold a different Ayam breed (one that has similar appearance) but isn't actually a Cemani. These have red combs/ETC. but aren't Cemani.

Any suggestions/feedback here?
>Can an Ayam Cemani even have a red comb/orange eyes?
>>If not: I feel as if I paid WAY to much from this breeder and should ask for the bulk of my money back.

Thanks,
CM

 

[catface]

The Ayam Cemani is a hot and debated topic. There is no official type or breed specs for the Ayam Cemani. They are not a recognized breed here in the U.S.

I have been breeding them for a few years now and the roosters do not ever in my experience have a true black comb. They have a very dark "mulberry" colored comb which is almost black looking but gets brighter red if the bird is distressed or you are upsetting his girls.

There are also a lot of "culls" with this breed. It is very common to breed pure black Ayam Cemani's and get chicks with white wingtips, chest and toes. The gene that causes the all black coloring is a recessive gene. I have bred birds that are 7/8 Ayam Cemani and 1/8 other and gotten all white skin even though they were almost pure Ayam Cemani "Almost" is not always good enough.

The Ayam Cemani is a bandwagon a lot of people have jumped on. When I started breeding them they sold for almost $5000 a pair. Now you can get chicks for $199 each from top breeders. A huge drop in a short amount of time.

If you're looking to make money you're better off going with a breed that is recognized and has an official breed standard though I don't think anyone who breeds chickens is going to actually make money at all.

 

[catface]

Another thing, The Ayam Cemani only lays about 80 eggs per year. They do not produce like a common laying hen.

 

[Manningjw]

Another thing, The Ayam Cemani only lays about 80 eggs per year. They do not produce like a common laying hen.

^^^^^^^^

Big reason why I don't own them. That and I am cheap, with a capitol C.

 

[CrazyHatchingLady]

I know this post is old but I thought I would put this out there for people who may still be looking for Posts like this.... I have an Pure Breed AC and it was born with white flecks in its wing (Which I love) And white on its chest that is now darkening. I also spoke with a man who owns one and it is pure as well but his has the genetic defect of red in the comb. As far as the eyes I have not spoken with anyone who has ran into that. However I have been talking to a local breeder I have made arrangement with to get a dozen incubating eggs from this spring told me that the ones who are completely black can produce AC with the genetic defects and I read ones with the genetic defects can produce all black its a genetic crap shoot. That I guess is why I don't understand why breeders Cull the one with the defects because the ones with the defects can still give them pure breed all black and the all black can still produce the genetic issues. Make sure to find out 100% sure the AC do not carry these genetic defects.... I know I was livid about mine until researching and speaking with breeders. However even if she has these defects or was pure or not to me she was worth all the pain because she is so petite and lively she gets to stay with me a little longer......

 

[The Moonshiner]

Because they're not worth so much anymore.
A few years back every Tom, Dick and Hairball had the same get rich quick idea and now the market is flooded.
I saw some last year sell at auction for less then some barred rock hens.
The fad has faded.

 

[Michael OShay]

The vendor is refusing to even entertain the idea of refund -- and claims the only Ayam's they have are ones which need to be culled.

That's too bad. I suppose there's not much you can do then, unless you decide to take him to court. Although you can certainly put out a warning to others regarding his birds.

 

[Birdinhand]

I know this post is old but I thought I would put this out there for people who may still be looking for Posts like this.... I have an Pure Breed AC and it was born with white flecks in its wing (Which I love) And white on its chest that is now darkening. I also spoke with a man who owns one and it is pure as well but his has the genetic defect of red in the comb. As far as the eyes I have not spoken with anyone who has ran into that. However I have been talking to a local breeder I have made arrangement with to get a dozen incubating eggs from this spring told me that the ones who are completely black can produce AC with the genetic defects and I read ones with the genetic defects can produce all black its a genetic crap shoot. That I guess is why I don't understand why breeders Cull the one with the defects because the ones with the defects can still give them pure breed all black and the all black can still produce the genetic issues. Make sure to find out 100% sure the AC do not carry these genetic defects.... I know I was livid about mine until researching and speaking with breeders. However even if she has these defects or was pure or not to me she was worth all the pain because she is so petite and lively she gets to stay with me a little longer......

I imagine that to really get the genes down, it would take some serious study of genetics and tracking of individual birds using the punnet square method... and a lot of trial and error. we purchased a few Ball Python Morphs last spring and in the process I read up a lot of their genetics. when seeking a recessive outcome, you really have to get scientific with respect to breeding and start following the line. a normal looking animal can indeed cary the genes that result in the desired trait. many traits simply won't breed true. to end up with consistent results takes a lot of exacting study and investment. we got into fancy guppies for a while, grew out several lines and ended up with over a thousand fish. the process was costly and ver time consuming and the results were mixed and we eventually gave up when we returned from a vacation only to find the house sitter had over fed the fish and caused a massive die off. I have been tempted to get into breeding panther chameleons (worth looking up!) but have heard similar stories of people getting very frustrated with the results and ending up with a lot of unsellable animals.

 

[NevilChick]

I have researched these birds for nearly a year now and have hatched three sets from the "best" breeding stock. I don't believe there will ever be birds that will not have chicks with "defects". Even Greenfire and FoxFire (Brothers) will tell you this. The Astin Marie birds have defects. These birds aren't perfect, but they are beautiful. I am anxiously awaiting for my first hatch from my own pair this week.

 

[lightchick]

Can you post a pic?
Sounds like he's not totally Ayam Cemani.