Backyard Brahmas!!

[bumpercarr]

Hi guys, I have a total of 15 partridge brahma eggs incubating now on day 10.. Bumpercarr or others, and chance you can tell any hints on color when they hatch? As far as black vs blue.. These should all be either/or, no splash as far as I know (mine from own flock for sure anyway)..

Either way I'm excited! Hoping for a successful hatch and that I'll get some good looking birds from it.

If you had a gold partridge (black) with a blue partridge you should not get any splash, they should be 50%/50% gold/blue. I had a gold cock over blue hens, but it doesn't make a difference which way to breed them. If both parents are blue, then you will get splash (25%), gold (25%) and blue (50%). Both parents gold and you will get 100% gold. I have no idea about breeding the splash, I've never had any splash and haven't looked at the chicken calculator to determine what I would get.

I assume you're asking me whether I can tell when they are hatched which color they are going to be. My answer is sometimes, which is probably not what you were looking for. Usually there are some that are significantly lighter than the others, I can tell that those will probably be blue (key word being probably). Once they are about 3-4 weeks old, I can tell with pretty good certainty based on the darkness/lightness of their backs and any breast feathers that are beginning to emerge. One thing to remember is that even the gold has gray/blue down so until some of the primary feathers start coming in it is difficult to tell what their base color is going to be (black or blue). After you've looked at a few of them, you begin to think that you can guess but frankly I've been proven wrong too many times. Another things that I've noticed, the more color that is on their head, the more likely it is gold. But what is "more color"? I've also noticed that the black stripe running down the back seems to be more distinguished in those that turn out gold. Anyway, it is just difficult for me to tell for sure until the breast feathers come in. At that point, I'm batting 100%.

Next, you'll ask about sexing at hatch and I'll be the first to admit that my averages are about 65%, so I'm not the one to ask. I'm pretty good once they're 4-6 weeks old, but at hatch I'm not any better than just taking a wild guess.

Where the heck is Big Medicine anyway? Is he hiding from us?

 

[bumpercarr]

Oh, and they all look like little chipmunks or baby quail when they hatch.

 

[carcar80]

If you had a gold partridge (black) with a blue partridge you should not get any splash, they should be 50%/50% gold/blue. 

Correct. Which is what I have in my own flock (gold cock/blue hens). I just meant, I only assume the other eggs I got were from a 50/50 as well but I didn't ask.

 

[bumpercarr]

Correct. Which is what I have in my own flock (gold cock/blue hens). I just meant, I only assume the other eggs I got were from a 50/50 as well but I didn't ask.

That's what I figured.

 

[Junibutt]

Off the Brahma topic here, but just asking since the subject of dwarfism came up earlier. My dad was sold 11 Golden Buff Heavy Cochins 4 weeks ago. All failed to thrive, they were otherwise very active but he keeps on losing 1 every 4 days. Down to 5 now. The 4 week old chicks are hardly growing any feathers and look smaller than my 2 week old Legbar chicks. All but one look like they are going to die. I think it must be some sort of genetic deficiency. My dad's came from a breeder, who has been inbreeding for a few years now so that could be one reason or maybe my dad who has always had a broody raise the chicks doesn't know how to raise them and these chicks are just malnourished. I have been giving him tips regularly but am not sure if he is following them completely. What do you folks think based on the pics only. Here are the pics:


This is the only one that I think may survive!

 

[Junibutt]

BTW here are some pics of my 5 week old Brahmas. Although the pics are not that clear but do you see signs of any cockerel?

 

[GAFarmGirl87]

BTW here are some pics of my 5 week old Brahmas. Although the pics are not that clear but do you see signs of any cockerel?

it's really too soon to tell. You should know in another 3 wks.

 

[livininbrazil]

Interesting. I don't know what you were breeding to try to get partridge, but generally people cross in a partridge cochin cock bird over dark brahma hens. This is why so many of the partridge brahmas hens have undesirable cushions and bunny tails (to the standard that is, they are still beautiful birds). I'm working to try to get rid of those traits, but so far I'm not having very good luck with my darks (killed by predators, poor hatch rate). I'm thinking that I need to go buy a nice dark trio and work from there, but unfortunately the breeders are just too far away from me to make that viable. If the darks that I have in the incubator don't hatch this time, I'm giving up on hatching some and trying to find a trio even if I have to travel to get them.

On the dwarf/runt side, how do you tell the difference between the runt and dwarfism? Everything that I've read said that dwarfism exhibits itself at about 3 weeks, the chick doesn't grow as quickly and feathers out much more slowly, where a runt should have diminutive size from hatching but the feather development is similar to its normal siblings. I don't know if I've had runts or dwarfs, but either way it is an interesting study for me. I have one runt/dwarf (suspect dwarf) right now and I'm hoping he'll grow to adulthood just so that I can study him and his offspring. If I cross him with bantam dark hens will I end up with bantam partridge? That would be cool, I don't think I've seen those anywhere.

On the line breeding side, of course if you breed your line back, you will not only enhance the desirable traits but will also enhance the undesirable traits. Since dwarfism (not bantam) is a recessive gene, I would think breeding a son back to his mum there would be a higher likelihood of dwarfism if the mum also had the dwarf gene and passed a recessive gene on to the cockerel that you bred her back to. Most people that do line breeding agree though that the process should be best of the pullets back to the father and the best cockerel back to the mother. Then the F2 generation in theory would have the best of the parents. At that point, it would seem wise to bring in an unrelated line, but I haven't managed to get that far because of my losses.

I sure wish that Big Medicine would chime in. He is so wise when it comes to this stuff.

Hi Bumpercar. I already have a Brahma hen, but I could only get hold of a badly laced cock at the time, so I picked the least laced youngster that resulted, and bred him back to his mum to see if any would come out partridge. They didn´t. So, I kept the best of those and bred that back with his grandma, the partridge, and got some that looked partridge at hatch, but one didn´t develop properly, which I put down to them being interbred, and the other two (I only left her with 3 eggs, being an experiment, didn´t want lots of too inbred birds around), one being a very darkly penciled buff pullet and the other is that interestingly coloured cockerel that I posted on here a while back, which I plan to breed to 2 pullets I bought as chicks, supposedly partridge, but again they´re not quite, they´re just very heavily pencilled buffs. Very pretty, though. The mother of the 2 pullets I bought in was also a partridge, and the cockbird looked like one, but there you go...now, I´m hoping that if they hatch chicks I just may get some partridge from them.

Re. dwarf/runt. I always think of a runt as a weakling. the one I call a dwarf is just small, but she´s also crippled, and limps around. Her feet also aren´t right, like she has arthritis and she´s the size of a bantam, whereas her sisters are enormous creatures. They lay the same sized eggs, so if she were to breed, the chicks would be normal size, I believe. But I don´t breed her, she´s just for eggs.
As for line-breeding, I´ve already been into dogs and done this, so I understand it with them...The Brahma hen has produced many chicks, there was just the one that didn´t develop, which I´ve put down to inbreeding, (grandma to grandson) but I wouldn´t say he was a dwarf, just a freak. The rest of what you said is what I´m doing. I´ve got in a totally unrelated cock to keep with the hens bred here, and totally unrelated hens to keep with the cocks bred here.
The little cockerel that I refer to as the runt was fine up to about 3 weeks, then didn´t grow properly after that, ´til he died. so, maybe I have it the wrong way round, then.
Interesting topic. This is the result of partridge grandma and grandson. He hatched with partridge stripes. I´m looking forward to seeing how he turns out.

This is another result of the grandma with son. This one has colouring I like. He´s getting better as he grows.

 

[bumpercarr]

Off the Brahma topic here, but just asking since the subject of dwarfism came up earlier. My dad was sold 11 Golden Buff Heavy Cochins 4 weeks ago. All failed to thrive, they were otherwise very active but he keeps on losing 1 every 4 days. Down to 5 now. The 4 week old chicks are hardly growing any feathers and look smaller than my 2 week old Legbar chicks. All but one look like they are going to die. I think it must be some sort of genetic deficiency. My dad's came from a breeder, who has been inbreeding for a few years now so that could be one reason or maybe my dad who has always had a broody raise the chicks doesn't know how to raise them and these chicks are just malnourished. I have been giving him tips regularly but am not sure if he is following them completely. What do you folks think based on the pics only. Here are the pics:


This is the only one that I think may survive!

They are definitely not thriving. Look almost like they are starving, but if he's feeding them there may just be another issue that prevents them from digesting their food. Make sure he's feeding medicated chick starter. I'm not sure I can tell you anything else. Maybe post on the illness board and see if there is any advice there.

 

[bumpercarr]

Hi Bumpercar. I already have a Brahma hen, but I could only get hold of a badly laced cock at the time, so I picked the least laced youngster that resulted, and bred him back to his mum to see if any would come out partridge. They didn´t. So, I kept the best of those and bred that back with his grandma, the partridge, and got some that looked partridge at hatch, but one didn´t develop properly, which I put down to them being interbred, and the other two (I only left her with 3 eggs, being an experiment, didn´t want lots of too inbred birds around), one being a very darkly penciled buff pullet and the other is that interestingly coloured cockerel that I posted on here a while back, which I plan to breed to 2 pullets I bought as chicks, supposedly partridge, but again they´re not quite, they´re just very heavily pencilled buffs. Very pretty, though. The mother of the 2 pullets I bought in was also a partridge, and the cockbird looked like one, but there you go...now, I´m hoping that if they hatch chicks I just may get some partridge from them.

Re. dwarf/runt. I always think of a runt as a weakling. the one I call a dwarf is just small, but she´s also crippled, and limps around. Her feet also aren´t right, like she has arthritis and she´s the size of a bantam, whereas her sisters are enormous creatures. They lay the same sized eggs, so if she were to breed, the chicks would be normal size, I believe. But I don´t breed her, she´s just for eggs.
As for line-breeding, I´ve already been into dogs and done this, so I understand it with them...The Brahma hen has produced many chicks, there was just the one that didn´t develop, which I´ve put down to inbreeding, (grandma to grandson) but I wouldn´t say he was a dwarf, just a freak. The rest of what you said is what I´m doing. I´ve got in a totally unrelated cock to keep with the hens bred here, and totally unrelated hens to keep with the cocks bred here.
The little cockerel that I refer to as the runt was fine up to about 3 weeks, then didn´t grow properly after that, ´til he died. so, maybe I have it the wrong way round, then.
Interesting topic. This is the result of partridge grandma and grandson. He hatched with partridge stripes. I´m looking forward to seeing how he turns out.

This is another result of the grandma with son. This one has colouring I like. He´s getting better as he grows.

You didn't tell me how old these guys are. Partridge is really a type of penciling rather than lacing, that might be why you aren't getting what you are looking for. That is why the partridge X darks work so well, they are both penciled patterns. The lights are Columbian patterns. If Big Medicine joins our conversation, he can nail down what you are getting and why much more than I can. I would recommend playing with the chicken calculator if you are trying to work towards a particular color/pattern. You can find it by googling and then select the new chicken calculator from the bottom of the page. The new one has tabs that make it a little easier to get the right genetic makeup. Choose the male tab and take a gold with black and then select the partridge pattern. Same for the female, just pick blue instead of black. Then you can select the offspring to breed back to see what you would end up with on the punnet square and breed back to either mom or pop.

A lot of times the physical problems also come from improper placement in the egg before hatch. It is really impossible to tell why one would have some deformities and some others wouldn't. Interesting that your runt/dwarf has a leg/foot problem. That is one of the problems associated with dwarfism that is not bantam dwarfism. I'm still reading up on which types of dwarfism are passed from which parents. There is one type that is only passed to cockerels from their mother, that must be the type that I have since it seems like one out of each hatch had a runt/dwarf in it. I suspect that one of my pullets had the dwarfism gene. Hopefully, it isn't the only one that is left after the dog attack, but we'll find out when I get a cockerel old enough and brave enough to breed to her.