Backyard Brahmas!!

[bumpercarr]

Ok, thanks. It´s got the tiniest bit clearer..just the tiniest bit!

So does it matter about the amount of black feathers they have? The diagram has no grey feathers showing, so that´s why I posted the last pic, as it seems to have no black or grey feathers. But it should have a white front and coloured neck and wings, then?
So, then what are these colours in the pics called? Splash?

I would say that they are probably splash, but you'd really have to know the parentage to be able to tell for sure. Or, you can breed it (as big medicine said earlier) to a black based bird and if you get blue babies, it is splash. If you get white patterns (and a few others that I don't remember, just not blue) then it is a pyle. Genetics can be very confusing, and I'm working really hard to try to understand, so I'll explain the little bit that I know about it. The blue gene dilutes the black to blue or gray and is denoted by Bl. If you breed two blue together, each of the birds has one blue and one non-blue (black) gene (Bl/bl+). Half of the offspring will be blue (same gene as parents (Bl/bl+, the bl+ being the non-blue gene), a quarter of the offspring will be non-blue (bl+/bl+) and a quarter of the offspring will be splash (Bl/Bl) where the black is diluted to white. If you understand matrices, you can do a matrix and see how that comes about. So, if a bird is splash rather than pyle, if you breed it back to a non-blue (black), you will get all blue offspring because the non-blue is bl+/bl+ and the splash is Bl/Bl, and each offspring gets one gene from each parent and the only possibility is Bl/bl+. Sooooooooo, now that you are completely crosseyed, the true pyle (from what I understand) is not Bl/Bl but instead has a completely different gene that has dominant white. When I find that gene and play with it in a matrix or on the calculator (sometime way down the road I'm afraid), I'll let you know what I find. I hope that this helps you to understand a little bit.

I think some of the confusion comes from the word "splash". I tend to think that it means the color is splashed around and not regular, in chickens it just means that the black has been diluted to white and doesn't have anything really to do with the pattern

 

[big medicine]

Ok, thanks. It´s got the tiniest bit clearer..just the tiniest bit!

So does it matter about the amount of black feathers they have? The diagram has no grey feathers showing, so that´s why I posted the last pic, as it seems to have no black or grey feathers. But it should have a white front and coloured neck and wings, then?
So, then what are these colours in the pics called? Splash?

I don't know for sure without knowing the breeding behind these birds, but it is a good bet they carry two copies of blue, and not dominant white. The exception might be if any of these birds pictured are descended from buff laced, or the columbian variation that was called "palomino".


The diagram is an artist rendering of what an ideal red pyle Old English Game should look like, in type, pattern, and color.

The color of the birds pictured ? Well that is much more complicated than just splash, although splash is most assuredly part of the color.

Lets start with ground color, all birds are basically gold or silver based. Males can be split gold/silver.

Next lets talk pattern, which is the basic arrangement of pigmentation in the overall feather scheme. Each pattern is determined by certain combinations of genes,

The birds pictured appear to be gold based, columbian patterned. Standard buff Brahmas as accepted in the US are also gold based columbian patterned.


The degree of gold can be affected by multiple genetics, Here are some birds I have hatched that show some degree of variation.




Back to your birds originally pictured, what differentiates them from standard buff Brahmas is the color of the trim for lack of a better term at the moment. You have three basic options, black, blue , or splash.

Let me give you examples, but silver based columbian this time.

Black silver columbian



Blue silver columbian


Splash silver columbian


I hope that helps some. With out knowledge, and use of proper color names, things can get confusing. Take the last photo for example, kinda looks like a white bird don't it ?

 

[big medicine]

I would say that they are probably splash, but you'd really have to know the parentage to be able to tell for sure. Or, you can breed it (as big medicine said earlier) to a black based bird and if you get blue babies, it is splash. If you get white patterns (and a few others that I don't remember, just not blue) then it is a pyle. Genetics can be very confusing, and I'm working really hard to try to understand, so I'll explain the little bit that I know about it. The blue gene dilutes the black to blue or gray and is denoted by Bl. If you breed two blue together, each of the birds has one blue and one non-blue (black) gene (Bl/bl+). Half of the offspring will be blue (same gene as parents (Bl/bl+, the bl+ being the non-blue gene), a quarter of the offspring will be non-blue (bl+/bl+) and a quarter of the offspring will be splash (Bl/Bl) where the black is diluted to white. If you understand matrices, you can do a matrix and see how that comes about. So, if a bird is splash rather than pyle, if you breed it back to a non-blue (black), you will get all blue offspring because the non-blue is bl+/bl+ and the splash is Bl/Bl, and each offspring gets one gene from each parent and the only possibility is Bl/bl+. Sooooooooo, now that you are completely crosseyed, the true pyle (from what I understand) is not Bl/Bl but instead has a completely different gene that has dominant white. When I find that gene and play with it in a matrix or on the calculator (sometime way down the road I'm afraid), I'll let you know what I find. I hope that this helps you to understand a little bit.

I think some of the confusion comes from the word "splash". I tend to think that it means the color is splashed around and not regular, in chickens it just means that the black has been diluted to white and doesn't have anything really to do with the pattern

I think you would be better served using the term dominant white instead of pyle in this case, as the pattern shown appears to be columbian restricted, and not a wild type black breasted red rendered white breasted by the presence of dominant white.

And actually a one copy dominant white bird that carried blue hidden by the dominant white, could in fact produce a blue chick when bred to a black bird. But not a splash. So any white trimmed chicks would verify the presence of dominant white.

 

[bumpercarr]

I think you would be better served using the term dominant white instead of pyle in this case, as the pattern shown appears to be columbian restricted, and not a wild type black breasted red rendered white breasted by the presence of dominant white.

And actually a one copy dominant white bird that carried blue hidden by the dominant white, could in fact produce a blue chick when bred to a black bird. But not a splash. So any white trimmed chicks would verify the presence of dominant white.

Perfect! I agree, dominant white is a better term. And of course, I should have added that there are always those unknowns that are hiding in the background to make things even more confusing!

 

[livininbrazil]

I don't know for sure without knowing the breeding behind these birds, but it is a good bet they carry two copies of blue, and not dominant white. The exception might be if any of these birds pictured are descended from buff laced, or the columbian variation that was called "palomino".


The diagram is an artist rendering of what an ideal red pyle Old English Game should look like, in type, pattern, and color.

The color of the birds pictured ? Well that is much more complicated than just splash, although splash is most assuredly part of the color.

Lets start with ground color, all birds are basically gold or silver based. Males can be split gold/silver.

Next lets talk pattern, which is the basic arrangement of pigmentation in the overall feather scheme. Each pattern is determined by certain combinations of genes,

The birds pictured appear to be gold based, columbian patterned. Standard buff Brahmas as accepted in the US are also gold based columbian patterned.


The degree of gold can be affected by multiple genetics, Here are some birds I have hatched that show some degree of variation.




Back to your birds originally pictured, what differentiates them from standard buff Brahmas is the color of the trim for lack of a better term at the moment. You have three basic options, black, blue , or splash.

Let me give you examples, but silver based columbian this time.

Black silver columbian



Blue silver columbian


Splash silver columbian


I hope that helps some. With out knowledge, and use of proper color names, things can get confusing. Take the last photo for example, kinda looks like a white bird don't it ?

Yes it does. I followed through with all of this, until the 'splash'. Thank you.
So how could I tell, just by looking, that this is not a white bird, but a splash?
Here´s a pic of splash 'Brahmas' for sale here in Brazil. (you´ll see they aren´t really at times brahmas

)

 

[big medicine]

Physically, splash only pertains to the parts of a bird that would be black with out the presence of blue, or in this case two copies of blue actually. So the "white" birds in this photo, being silver columbian, are mostly white genetically to begin with. Only the neck, tail, and wings are affected by having two copies of blue. If you look really close, you can see a dark spec in a tail feather of the pullet looking away.


Just as there are varying degrees of gold, affected by multiple color enhancers, or restrictors, the cleanness of the "white" in the splash portion of a bird can vary pretty widely between individuals.

Looking at the photos you posted, I would speculate that they are genetically a solid, or mostly solid, black bird with two copies of blue. Now in a case like that you can get away with calling such a bird a splash, (or blue, or black), as there is no pattern, (being unicolor) at play. Now that I look closer at the shots, there are some red shoulders bleeding through on at least one of the cockerels in the pen with the Cochin looking cock.

 

[bamadude]

Big med... i want splash silver columbian hatching eggs

 

[Housemom408]

Ok I need some advice. I have 5 male birds and I only want to keep 1. What type of behavior should I be looking for so I'm keeping a good one? I don't want my ignorance to lead me to put a good one in the freezer! That are 18 weeks old, so the time is near. Any advice would be great since in never done this before.

 

[bumpercarr]

Ok I need some advice. I have 5 male birds and I only want to keep 1. What type of behavior should I be looking for so I'm keeping a good one? I don't want my ignorance to lead me to put a good one in the freezer! That are 18 weeks old, so the time is near. Any advice would be great since in never done this before.

It sounds like you are looking to keep the cockerel that has the best personality and will be an asset to the flock rather than one that is closest to show type?

In the past, my best cock birds (personality wise) have been those that are good to the ladies, calls them over for the best treats, helps them to find a nest, encourages them to lay, doesn't tear them up too much when mounting them, and stays close to the girls at all times. He's usually the last one into the coop at bedtime, making sure that everyone else in in. He also doesn't mind the little ones when they are underfoot and reacts with alarm calls (but not charging at me) when I go into the pen to catch someone for either treatment or just to check them over. He reacts that way for all of the chickens in his flock, even the other juvenile males, chicks...not just for the hens that he is mating with. I don't want him to mate in front of me (often this has to be trained into them) and he can not under any circumstances try to attack me or another human when we are trying to catch one of his flock. If the flock is threatened, he will courageously try to lure the predator (or whatever is threatening) away from the rest so that they can escape....this last one you won't know about until something tries to attack the flock (I've found my cock birds outside of the pen, no idea how they got there, too big to fly, but missing a bunch of tail feathers from something that went after them instead of the rest of the flock). That is about all I can think of, but I'm sure others will have more ideas.

I would try to pick the cockerel that has as many of these traits as you can identify at this age...some won't develop these until they are more mature. I sit and watch the flock for several hours each day, looking for things that I like or don't like about each individual bird. By the time they are old enough to be culled, I usually have a pretty good idea about who needs to go to freezer camp.

 

[Housemom408]

Yes, I'm looking for the best personality. I have one that will just grab the back of a pullet's head and hold her. I'm thinking its a submission hold, however not sure. She will squawk and he will let go after a few seconds. He never tries to get on them and he never pulls any feathers out. Is this normal or is he being aggressive? The other males don't do it (yet),