California-Southern

[perchie.girl]

With Regard To Diatomaceous earth. I have been studying it and its benefits since 2000. With a focus on horse husbandry. it was suggested that feeding through was an excellent way to control parasites.... within the Gut. The DE would pass through to the manure and there it would really do its work.

In the manure pile it did a fabulous job slicing and dicing the parasites not allowing them to mature into adults. Reduced fly infestation. It also did some great things within the gut helping sweep out the smaller critters. Arguments that once it got wet made it ineffective ... I don't accept unless the animal ingesting the DE were also consuming an acid like vinegar.

My concerns over time came from the fact that Diatomaceous Earth should be applied with respiratory protection. We humans have far more lung surface area than Chickens do. Yet we Sprinkle it in their bedding and in their dust baths and even on them. All those sharp particles enter into their lungs and stay.

I don't have an issue with using DE as a preventative or as a feed through. I do have an issue with treating an infestation. with a dusting of DE. it doesn't act quick enough. I would rather treat the infestation With Ivermectin.... Not some cat and dog treatment... but that's me I understand horses and something I keep on hand... chickens have a very similar digestive system.

Digestion assisted by a Cecum filled with organisms that help break down the materials in the feed. DE is the perfect additive to this process. Working through the Gut.

Unfortunately there are parasites that do not require digestion to complete their evolution. they live in the muscle and the blood stream.... their final journey encistate (sp?) n the muscle.... meaning they pull in to make a larval hatching spot.... those are the ones that are protected by larvacide.... protected by their "shell" ...

Ivermectin has a long history of use within all these environments. Lung worms heart worms worms that live in the muscle.... You dont want them left to DE.

So I say. Use it for what its good for then back up with good medicine that works and doesnt leave the parasites resistant.
when I say good medicine I dont disregard DE value....
deb

 

[Sylvester017]

With Regard To Diatomaceous earth. I have been studying it and its benefits since 2000. With a focus on horse husbandry. it was suggested that feeding through was an excellent way to control parasites.... within the Gut. The DE would pass through to the manure and there it would really do its work.

In the manure pile it did a fabulous job slicing and dicing the parasites not allowing them to mature into adults. Reduced fly infestation. It also did some great things within the gut helping sweep out the smaller critters. Arguments that once it got wet made it ineffective ... I don't accept unless the animal ingesting the DE were also consuming an acid like vinegar.

My concerns over time came from the fact that Diatomaceous Earth should be applied with respiratory protection. We humans have far more lung surface area than Chickens do. Yet we Sprinkle it in their bedding and in their dust baths and even on them. All those sharp particles enter into their lungs and stay.

I don't have an issue with using DE as a preventative or as a feed through. I do have an issue with treating an infestation. with a dusting of DE. it doesn't act quick enough. I would rather treat the infestation With Ivermectin.... Not some cat and dog treatment... but that's me I understand horses and something I keep on hand... chickens have a very similar digestive system.

Digestion assisted by a Cecum filled with organisms that help break down the materials in the feed. DE is the perfect additive to this process. Working through the Gut.

Unfortunately there are parasites that do not require digestion to complete their evolution. they live in the muscle and the blood stream.... their final journey encistate (sp?) n the muscle.... meaning they pull in to make a larval hatching spot.... those are the ones that are protected by larvacide.... protected by their "shell" ...

Ivermectin has a long history of use within all these environments. Lung worms heart worms worms that live in the muscle.... You dont want them left to DE.

So I say. Use it for what its good for then back up with good medicine that works and doesnt leave the parasites resistant.
when I say good medicine I dont disregard DE value....
deb

I don't trust ads that say DE has so many uses or that it 'may' help in parasite/insect control. "May" is not a positive word and too many chickeneers accept word-of-mouth or mfr ads instead of requesting the scientific research. "Looks" like it's doing its job, "may" help prevent worms, yet there is too much danger associated in humans handling the stuff. Sharp crystalline in the gut of my chickens or in my CRD chicken's lung? Nope! Sorry - DE is a contentious subject and with so many other effective products for chickens I'd rather not use DE. But I respect your input Deb

-- it gets people to start wondering and doing some thorough subject research themselves.

 

[Sylvester017]

While im at it. What causes chickens to walk...well like there drunk. Stumbling around. I have two that are in varrying stages of said drunkedness. One worse off than the other as in i doubt my red chicken will make it threw the night.

Marek's is something that shows that type of symptoms in younger chickens. If younger chickens manage to survive Marek's they can develop internal cancerous tissues and die from it 2 or 3 years later. Do you have a vet? I take my chickens to Duarte-Azusa Animal Hospital, Dr. Zabihi, on Huntington Drive, who sees my chickens. He sees dogs/cats/exotics/birds. I've seen Guinea Pigs and Turtles in his waiting room!

 

[perchie.girl]

one thing to note.... Marek's is spread through chicken dander and it remains in the soil for years. If you find you have Marek's on your property its best if you practice extreme biosecurity... because you can pass it on to others without even knowing about it.

At this point there is no cure... The vaccine they get at the hatchery does not keep them from getting it, it only keeps them from developing the symptoms. They still shed the virus in their dander. BUT it does reduce the spread somewhat.

There are more specific sites on the internet for the disease but the following is about the history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease


deb

 

[chickencrazy21]

I have no clue if they were vacinated. I found them on creigslist. Have had them since december. Only two are showing this. The rest all seem fine. Once in awhile this happens and one dies suddenly. But my hole flock has never been effected *knock on wood* that would devistate me. I never thought to ask if they were vacinated

 

[perchie.girl]

I have no clue if they were vacinated. I found them on creigslist. Have had them since december. Only two are showing this. The rest all seem fine. Once in awhile this happens and one dies suddenly. But my hole flock has never been effected *knock on wood* that would devistate me. I never thought to ask if they were vacinated

its most likely something else..... Just about any vet can take a blood sample and send it to a lab.... call around

deb

 

[Sylvester017]

one thing to note.... Marek's is spread through chicken dander and it remains in the soil for years. If you find you have Marek's on your property its best if you practice extreme biosecurity... because you can pass it on to others without even knowing about it.

At this point there is no cure... The vaccine they get at the hatchery does not keep them from getting it, it only keeps them from developing the symptoms. They still shed the virus in their dander. BUT it does reduce the spread somewhat.

There are more specific sites on the internet for the disease but the following is about the history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek's_disease


deb

Hi Deb - I was told that chicks must get the vaccination in the first 48 hours and then have followup boosters again later. With 5 different strains of Marek's identified so far I wonder if it is mutating in such a manner that vaccines soon won't be that effective? Some breeders won't vaccinate in hopes of breeding resistant stock but personally I order juveniles from a breeder that vaccinates because I pay so much for the bird with shipping it's worth the vaccination to keep my investment alive. There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest to develop vaccines for chicken diseases. If the poultry industry loses their bird farm, it takes only 21 days to hatch new chickens and only takes 2 months for meat birds to develop for market and only 4 months for egg layers to start - so no real incentive to keep existing chickens alive when they are a commodity that's easily replaced in the industry - so sad!

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
its because weve bred resistant strains of the virus.... through a vaccination that only masks the disease instead of making them immune.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous/

I think the hatcheries vaccinate once... I havent heard of a follow up. but then I too go by what I read....

I personally would rather not vaccinate because if my birds come down with it I want to KNOW I have it on my property. Then if I want to have eggs and meat I will require the vaccination. No bird will leave my property after that.

Oh and for what its worth Battery hens that are rescued will have a high probability that they will have Mareks.... I wont be adopting

deb

 

[Sylvester017]

its because weve bred resistant strains of the virus.... through a vaccination that only masks the disease instead of making them immune.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous/

I think the hatcheries vaccinate once... I havent heard of a follow up. but then I too go by what I read....

I personally would rather not vaccinate because if my birds come down with it I want to KNOW I have it on my property. Then if I want to have eggs and meat I will require the vaccination. No bird will leave my property after that.

Oh and for what its worth Battery hens that are rescued will have a high probability that they will have Mareks.... I wont be adopting

deb

Oh, please! Don't get me started on the battery hen issue

- makes me so mad to see those poor things!

 

[chickencrazy21]

I had a fun hour of what i started out to put frontline on my chickens along with clip nails, clip a side of wings, and the very fun part. Cut off dried up poopy butt feathers. After my 7th poopy butt i came to realize my scissors were dull now, i was NUTS in the first place for doing this in the dark sure they didnt run away hkwever i was bent over in front of a lamp cliping feathers. And my nail clippers werent good enough to clip nails (couple of my birds dont scratch aparently) oh and the best. Had iur friend cut lower tree branches so the 15 that roost in the tree would be reachable...ya...7 still figured out how to get up in the tree only way higher now. Tommorrow or rather later today as its midnight now. Im investing in a net and better scissors and nail clippers. However most birds got the frontline. The tree is a mulberry tree. So they are up pretty high. You can see the eye ball of the 7th one thats hidding. Its under the white chicken. This is the mulberry tree before we trimed the left side. The lower branches were cut off.