Can I mix medicated and non-medicated chick starter?

[RoosterJuice]

Hello all, I incubated local eggs and bought non-medicated chick starter for the chicks. They hatched 3 days ago and three have died so I started doing more research about the feed. I want to switch to medicated feed but I have this massive bag of non-medicated? Can I mix it? Or should I save the non-medicated for when they’re older? Thank you in advance.

 

[Debbie292d]

If you want to go with medicated, then I'd just use that for the first week or two, then mix it. It's got a small amount of amprolium in it as it is, so I'd go with one way or the other but not both for now.

Chicks don't usually die from coccidiosis in their first few days and I doubt that's why they died. Do you have them warm enough (95F to start) and an area for them to get away from the heat if they want?

 

[RoosterJuice]

If you want to go with medicated, then I'd just use that for the first week or two, then mix it. It's got a small amount of amprolium in it as it is, so I'd go with one way or the other but not both for now.

Chicks don't usually die from coccidiosis in their first few days and I doubt that's why they died. Do you have them warm enough (95F to start) and an area for them to get away from the heat if they want?

Hello, thank you for the reply! The area right under the lamp is about 95, and the area away from it is around room temp. I built this 2x6 brooder when I got 35 chicks instead of the 15 I expected lol. Thank you for the input, I will switch to medicated today (which is day 3 of life for them) and them give them the non-medicated in a month’s time.

 

[Debbie292d]

Hello, thank you for the reply! The area right under the lamp is about 95, and the area away from it is around room temp. I built this 2x6 brooder when I got 35 chicks instead of the 15 I expected lol. Thank you for the input, I will switch to medicated today (which is day 3 of life for them) and them give them the non-medicated in a month’s time.

This looks great, but if I may make a couple of suggestions.

The newspaper can be slippery to new chicks and could cause them to get splayed legs, so just for the first couple of days until their legs get stronger, I'd lay down a few paper towels.

The feed and water I would move just a little bit further out, so they leave the heat to eat/drink.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what happened with your chicks before, as chicks dying 3-days old, there has to be something else wrong. Perhaps the ink on the newspapers heating up from the heat lamp gave off something?

 

[RoosterJuice]

This looks great, but if I may make a couple of suggestions.

The newspaper can be slippery to new chicks and could cause them to get splayed legs, so just for the first couple of days until their legs get stronger, I'd lay down a few paper towels.

The feed and water I would move just a little bit further out, so they leave the heat to eat/drink.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what happened with your chicks before, as chicks dying 3-days old, there has to be something else wrong. Perhaps the ink on the newspapers heating up from the heat lamp gave off something?

Hello again, thank you for these tips, I didn’t realize that paper towel could prevent splayed legs but I will definitely go add some now. As for the water and feed away from the light, that is a great idea! I keep the light on one side, then move it to the other every day. It makes for easy cleanup, I just replace the paper on the side they’re not on. I’ve always used newspaper, but who knows why it died… I’ll re-check the temps but I don’t see why it would have changed. Thank you again!

 

[RoosterJuice]

This looks great, but if I may make a couple of suggestions.

The newspaper can be slippery to new chicks and could cause them to get splayed legs, so just for the first couple of days until their legs get stronger, I'd lay down a few paper towels.

The feed and water I would move just a little bit further out, so they leave the heat to eat/drink.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what happened with your chicks before, as chicks dying 3-days old, there has to be something else wrong. Perhaps the ink on the newspapers heating up from the heat lamp gave off something?

Just thought I’d give an update. The temp was only getting to 83 in the hottest spot. I have since lowered the lamp and it is now 95! Thank you again for the advice.

 

[Debbie292d]

Just thought I’d give an update. The temp was only getting to 83 in the hottest spot. I have since lowered the lamp and it is now 95! Thank you again for the advice.

Oh, maybe that was it! Let's hope so and hopefully the rest thrive now!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll copy something I wrote a long time ago about medicated feed and Cocci. It may help you plan and explain why I'm going to recommend what I do. Amprolium (if your medicated feed contains Amprolium) does nothing to prevent Cocci until they are exposed to the organism that causes Cocci. It takes a while for the number of those organisms to build up to a point that they cause a problem so your problem was not Cocci. Some chicks are exposed to that organism in the brooder, some not until they hit the ground. Amprolium in those doses doesn't hurt them but unless they have been exposed it does not help.

In your situation I'd feed them some dirt from the run every three or four days to expose them and use a straight medicated feed diet for two to three weeks. That way they get a benefit from the medicated feed and develop immunity they need if Cocci is even in your local environment.


First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers, that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.

 

[rosemarythyme]

For the original question, do not mix the feeds. Use strictly one or the other as diluting down the amprolium (if that's the "medicated") drops it below the recommended preventative dosage amount.

I don't use medicated feed. I deliberately expose chicks to outside conditions and pathogens as soon as I get them, to encourage their immune systems to combat the strains of coccidiosis that I have in the environment.

 

[RoosterJuice]

For the original question, do not mix the feeds. Use strictly one or the other as diluting down the amprolium (if that's the "medicated") drops it below the recommended preventative dosage amount.

I don't use medicated feed. I deliberately expose chicks to outside conditions and pathogens as soon as I get them, to encourage their immune systems to combat the strains of coccidiosis that I have in the environment.

I would love to do this but where I am it’s below freezing and will be until they’re about 4 weeks old. Is that too late to introduce them? Thank you for the reply!