Can someone define silver pied to me

[Trefoil]

I thought that silver pied was a bird that was more than 50% white, so can someone explain what makes a bird silver pied as opposed to loud pied?

 

[Dany12]

Comparison between barbs of peacock feathers... IB, IB White and IB Silver Pied.
Normal blue and IB silver Pied ... bards of feather of IB are twice as wide as the bards of the feathers of IB Silver Pied.
White peacock feathers ( barbs ) are twice as fine.
White mutation of IB ... it is not only a matter of color!

Silver Pied feather :



White and IB feathers :



IB and IB Siver Pied :

 

[Trefoil]

After consulting the UPA site and finding no information on colors, I "yahooed" physical description of silver pied and came up with this:
From Triple B farms:
Quote: They also state that as far as they know, there is no official description of peafowl colors and that the above is only their opinion.

I am not a member of the UPA, and perhaps I am being super critical, but it seems to me that before recognizing a color, one should have a description of that color. That is the only way to ensure that when discussing color, everyone is talking about the same thing.

 

[Paintedheather]

Black shoulder/ pied spaulding / silver pied

 

[Trefoil]

So what is your take on Brad's article. Is he saying any pied WE bird is silver pied if it has lots of white or do you think he is saying or implying that there is a mutation of the WE gene that makes silver pied different from pied white eye?

I don't think you are being difficult at all. I just think the definition already exists, we just may not have the knowledge to understand it.


Edited to include: Would the UPA recognize pied white eye separately from silver pied if there is not a mutation involved?

Sorry about the skip in time between parts of the article, it took me awhile trying to understand. I Think he is saying that silver pied is a mutation of the white eyed gene, because he says that without the WE, there would be no SP. But that may not have been what he meant because he went on to say "As with breeding any pied pattern of peafowl the ratio is 1-2-1. When breeding Silver Pied to Silver Pied you get an average of 25% white, 50 % Silver Pied, 25% Dark Pied “White-Eyed”. So doesn't that suggest that he see's SP as just a convenient way of saying a white bird with we and 10-20% color? Also, in his 1-2-1 ratio, is he calling a dark pied any bird with over 20% color? Does that mean that "officially" there is only silver pied and pied, and that loud and dark are just a convenient way of implying the amount of white? I think he is saying that the "frosting" comes with age and therefore wouldn't be considered a prerequisite for a young bird to be silver pied.

 

[DylansMom]

ok from chick pictures I was told Houdina is a silver pied.
I don't see this silvery look to her colored feathers...
I mean theres a little you can see on her wing feathers there, but its more of a speckled white, not silvery... so is she not silver pied but loud? I know nothing
first pict shes the one in front, with just dark spot on her back and head. 2nd pict is 14 weeks and other two are recent - two years.
I don't know how to look at her and "see" if she has the genes.

I'm gonna have to go with loud pied. I have 2 silver hens and neither has brown feathers like that. Here are pics of both of mine

 

[Dany12]

Autumnmfisher ... this peahen Pied must be mated with a very white peacock Pied !

When I look at photos of Hopkins farm .... especially the young Peacock 6 months and 1 year ... I have serious doubts!
If experts tell jokes .... where we go ?

http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/India Blue Silver Pied.htm

 

[PeacockMan]

Silver pieds only have a hint of silver when they are juveniles except for the hens which will remain white with silver/grayish feathers The breeders had to call Silver pieds something that would distinguish them from the Blue pieds that they look so much like. However, the distinguishing characteristic is that they will have more white than the Blue pieds. The Silver pieds should have simply been named "Mega" pieds. Their color pattern will range from white with about one percent color to the dark Silver pieds that are about one percent white. Some are even all White and will get only a pied blue neck.

But to answer the question about what makes a "loud" pied. It is a pied bird that is basically white.

 

[DylansMom]

I am getting more confused the more I read.

Especially with the genetics and breeding.

OK, back to a basic question, I know what makes a silver, the silver feathers on the back. I know what a pied is, and as I understand it 'Loud' is the contrast of white and dark in the train according to FBC. What I don't know is what you call a pied that is more white than dark. ???

Quite obviously, we all have a different opinion about what makes a pied silver, dark, or loud. If I were to use FBC's criteria then every bird that carries 2 copies of the White Eye gene is a loud pied, because they have the most contrast in the train and I simply don't agree with that. Unless it is actually written down somewhere by the UPA, I am assuming we can have light, loud, and dark versions of both blue pied and silver pied birds. The presence of the silver feathers would determine blue or silver and the overall amount of color versus white and the resulting contrast would determine which descriptor we use. Very confusing isn't it?

 

[Rosa moschata]

The confusion will continue until breeders agree to standardize terms and properly use genetic nomenclature. The phenotype "Silver Pied" is not the result of one mutation, despite it being described as the "Silver Pied Mutation." Breeders continue to say a bird is "split to Silver Pied" despite that not being genetically possible. I think this is a combination of breeders not understanding basic Mendelian genetics (as taught in high school biology that hasn't been corrupted by people afraid of the concept of evolution) with a dash of purposely keeping things confusing so backyard breeders don't figure out how easy it is to mix and match mutations in offspring with simple parental selection.

It continues to baffle me how breeders of other birds -- including other poultry -- are replete with individuals who not only fully understand the mechanics behind their birds' phenotypes but also freely share this information with others. And this, to me, is doubly odd, considering how easy it is to learn the building blocks of Mendelian genetics -- taking up far less time and knowledge than would otherwise be involved in raising and caring for their birds. Read Dave Holderread's book "Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks" to get a great genetic primer. He breaks down the mutations involved in the different plumage variations among the various breeds of Mallard-derived breeds as well as the Muscovy. Then, when you're done, ask yourself why no one in the peafowl world seems as proficient with -- or free to share -- genetic information. It's really not that difficult once you understand the basics.