Caponizing

[naillikwj82]

Several thoughts to consider:
Not being familiar with parrot anatomy, how long will the feed in their crop last? Chickens may still have food in the crop 4 to 6 hours after feed is restricted. From experience I can say that you want to have the intestinal tract empty!

Just as your surgeon tells you no food intake for a day prior to surgery, well the same is true here. The timetable I use is ie, Sunday- select and isolate the birds with feed and water, remove feed at dusk. Mid-day on Monday remove water. Very early Tuesday is surgery, then back to water and feed. Leave birds in quiet area and observe. Free feed and water. Friday morning check for windpuff, alleviate where needed and check again on Sunday, then return birds to flock. With this method they are off water for 18 hours.
If 18 hours off water is dangerous, then why or how do wild birds survive winters? Such as no snow on the ground, and 10 degrees or colder for days on end. Yet they are still out there flying about.
I would also concur with minniechickmama that chickens are much hardier than a house caged parrot.
j

 

[Zootopia]

I always thought they did the fast so you didn't puck and then aspirate. We are doing it for that, but also so that the gut is empty and up out of our way when looking for the testes.

 

[Minniechickmama]

I always thought they did the fast so you didn't puck and then aspirate. We are doing it for that, but also so that the gut is empty and up out of our way when looking for the testes.

There is no "up out of the way" when removing the birds testicles here, they are tight up against the spinal region, so you want the guts down and away.

 

[Zootopia]

There is no "up out of the way" when removing the birds testicles here, they are tight up against the spinal region, so you want the guts down and away.

Opps, sorry, DOWN out of the way, your right. I better remember that this weekend, got my spreaders, so IT"S ON!

OK, Minniechickmama do you have a pic tutorial ready for me?

 

[Working Dog Doc]

Several thoughts to consider:
Not being familiar with parrot anatomy, how long will the feed in their crop last? Chickens may still have food in the crop 4 to 6 hours after feed is restricted. From experience I can say that you want to have the intestinal tract empty!

Just as your surgeon tells you no food intake for a day prior to surgery, well the same is true here. The timetable I use is ie, Sunday- select and isolate the birds with feed and water, remove feed at dusk. Mid-day on Monday remove water. Very early Tuesday is surgery, then back to water and feed. Leave birds in quiet area and observe. Free feed and water. Friday morning check for windpuff, alleviate where needed and check again on Sunday, then return birds to flock. With this method they are off water for 18 hours.
If 18 hours off water is dangerous, then why or how do wild birds survive winters? Such as no snow on the ground, and 10 degrees or colder for days on end. Yet they are still out there flying about.
I would also concur with minniechickmama that chickens are much hardier than a house caged parrot.
j

Major abdominal surgery (going through a major body cavity, like doing a capnization) is a big stress for the body. I don't know about human surgeons, but as a veterinarian, we definitely do NOT have any animal, particularly young pediatric patients, fast for that long. Remember, a chicken or parrot or even a dog or cat has a much, much greater surface area to volume ratio than a human and will not only get chilled during surgery faster, but will also have a much faster metabolism. If I was doing any surgery on a dog or cat, especially a pediatric patient (which is what a young chicken is), I have the owners pull food, not water, at 9 PM the night before. I have them pull water in the morning. So in other words, no food for 12 hours max (could probably do 6-8 hours in a puppy or kitten) and access to water just a few hours before. Then they get IV fluids through the procedure. So I hope it makes sense why getting a young pediatric patient like a young cockerel dehydrated and their blood glucose low from that long of not eating or drinking is not ideal and why you will more than likely lose some. All my regular surgery patients have pretty decently full intestines on doing something like a regular spay, so this is something I am used to.

At any rate, I have 2 young production red cockerels to do in about a month. I will probably fast them 12 hours and keep water available until the morning of and I will report back how it goes.

 

[Minniechickmama]

Just a note of experience with this part of the discussion here.
The last time I did some of the boys, I couldn't get to them when I had anticipated, so I gave them food and water. Not the usual amount of food, but enough so they would have the strength to go through with the procedure. They were off food for about 18-hours and their intestines were still so bloated/full/whatever, that it was difficult keeping them out of the way long enough to find the testes, much less try grabbing them. It is a delicate enough maneuver to get them out, but having to deal with stuff pushing up and into the way, just increases the chance of losing them.
Now, the other point that I want to make, is that I am quite certain, though I don't know where I put my caponizing book, that pulling the food for 24-hours has been rountine in this procedure since it was written, and it is OLD.
I am not trying to agrue against your points, I think they are good ones and coming from a vet, I can totally understand what you are say. But that is why, like Jeff has pointed out a few times, don't go by age, go by weight and make sure they are big enough, and it has nothing to do with the size of the testes, but how strong that bird is going into this surgery. It is quite invasive, but chickens will mellow out and go into a sort of trance while this is being done. It is incredible, like they are doing some kind of meditation.

Good luck in your upcoming attempts, being that you are already experienced with the tools, I think that is half the battle.


NOW, as for you Zoo.... LOL!
If I had someone around when I am doing this to take the pictures for my step-by-step procedure, I would have them up already!
Actually, I don't want to pretend to be good at this, I want to wait until I know I can do the whole thing well enough that I don't look like a bumbling fool hacking into the critters. One day.

 

[Zootopia]

Ah, Dh has suggested I check the weather, it was 103 here today, if it is going to stay hot I'm going to be doing this at the kitchen table (Don't tell DH) since I don't think sweat running into my eyes will help steady my hands. LOL I'll have to put the roos some place cooler too.

 

[partsRheavy]

103?! Wow!!! Only thing that likes THAT kind of heat is a cactus!!

I guess Accuweather agrees - http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/abilene-tx/79601/weather-forecast/331108

It's upper 80s in east Texas....so far LOL.

At that temp I would definitely coop up the little guys somewhere dark and cooler than 103 and also try to do them somewhere away from all that heat. They should probably have their first couple days of recovery away from that sort of heat also.

I wouldn't put them in a chilly a/c location either ---- just somewhere the temp is low 80s. They used to do a lot of caponizing in the rural areas outside Philadelphia during the summer and my guess is they were doing it at times when temps were in the 80s.

Might need to use a headlamp to see if you're working in a basement or a barn ---- if the locations with sunlight are at 103.

The old books seem to recommend putting them in a rather dark or shaded place with no roosts both for their pre-op fast and also while they are recovering,

I think the risk of dehydration would be extreme at temps above 90.

Thanks for posting this!! I need to think about plans for what to do during the rapidly-approaching summer.

 

[naillikwj82]

I don't feel it would be prudent to continue in those extreme temps. Chickens are working too hard as it is to cool themselves in those conditions. Do you have access to a cooler venue (ventilated garage, barn, unused root cellar)? The space would be needed for several days.
We have been spoiled here on the Peninsula, our extreme high might be 80 degrees for three of four days during the summer. Not sure if I would survive 103 for long.

 

[Zootopia]

We are pretty used to those temps tho it is a bit early. I lost a couple 3 wk ODs because I didn't think to turn the heat lamp off in the brooder. I am usually finished raising by the time it gets really hot here. The Capons can stay in the garage for a couple days, it is alot cooler in there. I will definitely be doing the work in the kitchen