Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[Thespoiledchicken]

Here is an opinion FWIW, your boy is looking pretty good. He will develop some more coloring but appears to be at least heterozygous for cream. The girl in the bottom picture also appears heterozygous for cream. The other girls appear to be gold/gold. Get some other opiions from those who have more experience than me.

I concur with Hapless, the boy looks good so far but still young, the girls are all gold except for one that might be cream. They may be cream carriers though but you won't know until you mate them to the boy and grow out their offspring.

Thanks guys! That helps me make some breeding decisions

One more question- if I'm understanding things correctly- does the Cream gene work like a normal recessive would? Say my roo is ig/ig than bred to girls who are gold/gold the resulting offspring would all be gold but definite carriers of Cream?

And the Rees line of Cream Legbars- why do they look so different? Is it just the Cream?

(sorry if this was covered already)


Thanks!

Trish

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Thanks guys! That helps me make some breeding decisions

One more question- if I'm understanding things correctly- does the Cream gene work like a normal recessive would? Say my roo is ig/ig than bred to girls who are gold/gold the resulting offspring would all be gold but definite carriers of Cream?

And the Rees line of Cream Legbars- why do they look so different? Is it just the Cream?

(sorry if this was covered already)


Thanks!

Trish

Yes that's exactly how the recessive cream works. You've got it. You've got your work cut out for you then!

Rees line- is very different in several ways. My understanding is that the cream gene is fixed, and the type is more true and consistent, as is the barring. I would guess too that her birds are much closer to the goal weight and egg size as she breeds to the UK show standard. It will be exciting to start seeing how her lines will affect the US stock. But remember when you combine different lines of the same breed genetics go a bit haywire for a few generations so who knows what we will see! Things tend to pop up that were not problems in either line before the blend.

 

[ChicKat]

I remember someone last year dealing with occasional green spots on legs. Hopefully they can weigh in nittany!

@Chickat, Grey is my only boy that's close to two. His breast barring has darkened with age, but it started dark as well. His hackles lightened, but his shoulders and saddle have darkened to red red and gold barred with darker gold. He has thrown 3 cream chicks, so I know he's a carrier, but I 'm hoping to get a great cream boy from him with his shape and demeanor

lots more testing to do lol.

KP -
That is what I am seeing too - the breast gets darker as the male gets older. the hackles seem to get lighter. Some youngsters that seem to have a chestnut here and there, I have seen that disappear in adult feathering and they seem to get lighter. LOL - I was looking at my past 2-roo today and thinking on his crest, he is getting 'gray hair' - you know how some animals get a gray muzzle when they are old.

Still wondering in my mind if there isn't a range of cream - that may go as far as the super-light birds that appear monochromatic - with only black and white - and include your bird Gray - Because of the way these genetics work together and the multiple influence - we honestly have to admit we don't really know if the bird has one or two cream ig genes..IMO.

Interesting insights that are coming out about the darker and 'well defined breast' - good examples in nicalandia's photo references, and dretd's references to SOP wording.

 

[HaplessRunner]

Thanks guys! That helps me make some breeding decisions

One more question- if I'm understanding things correctly- does the Cream gene work like a normal recessive would? Say my roo is ig/ig than bred to girls who are gold/gold the resulting offspring would all be gold but definite carriers of Cream?

And the Rees line of Cream Legbars- why do they look so different? Is it just the Cream?

(sorry if this was covered already)


Thanks!

Trish

As I understand it, the cream gene is a standard recessive gene and functions as expected. My guess on your roo (& I am NO geneticist) is that your roo is Ig/ig. If you bred to a Ig/ig girl then you have a 25% shot at getting ig/ig. This is your best approach with the CLs that you have.

If the roo was ig/ig and was bred to Ig/Ig girls then they should be heterozygous for cream, that is they would be carriers of cream. But this is not your current situation.

With respect to the Rees line, they look fascinating but I am a little cautious. They appear to be much larger birds which is good. But the pictures I have seen which may not be good quality or have lighting issues, make me question whether they are cream/cream. The pictures I have seen indicate appear to indicate nice cream hackles but there is some gold in the crest. Like I said, lighting strongly affects one's perceptions of color. So I am not about to pass judgement because I have not seen one in person. But likewise, I am not going to pay $150/bird.

 

[KPenley]

I think there is a range of cream, but Grey's saddle has become very gold with age. And his offspring have very closely followed expected results from a simple Punnett square ( when bred to golden colored girls, all offspring were golden. When bred to a cream colored girl, 3/10 chicks grew to be cream and the rest golden...which showed me he was a single cream carrier). Is there more going on with the red influences, and other unknowns? Sure, there's lots we don't know

 

[GaryDean26]

With respect to the Rees line, they look fascinating but I am a little cautious.

When introducing new blood into your flock the use of caution is always a good idea.

For example if you have been type breed for the bluest possible eggs for 3 generation and are now getting a color you like with good consistency then add a new line to your flock (Rees line, or birds from any other flock in the country) you may find that the offspring are back to where you were three generations ago with greener eggs than you had achieved. Selecting a group of 3 hens and crossing them with a new line cockerel and then breeding a cockerel from the group into your flock rather than breeding the new line cockerel directly into your flock is one recommendation that I have seen for introducing new blood.

If you are still working on putting together a breeding group, like I think nearly all of us are, then you my want to use the Rees line birds as your main breeding line and introduce blood from the older stock into the Rees line with the same caution.

Or, if you may just want to start a new breeding line from scratch by crossing the Rees line with the older stock and working from square 1.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Most Legbar Males here have what I call Messy, undefined Barred breast, so his breast fits the state of current legbar males, Cibola Chook has a cockerel with the most well defined barred breast I have seen here

 

[blackbirds13]

Quote:
Agree, he has a nicely barred chest. He is a good-looking boy.

 

[nicalandia]

Agree, he has a nicely barred chest. He is a good-looking boy.

your birds have really good contrast of Dark barring and Cream, something you dont see often,

 

[CibolaChooks]

Agree, he has a nicely barred chest. He is a good-looking boy.

his chest and tail angle and temperment is about all he gots going for him.He does have a straight comb and a crest tassel but im thinking i shouldnt be breeding from him