Dixie Rainbows/Pilgrim chickens - first meaties

[Newtothehens]

This spring, I ordered chickens for the first time - 10 layers, various breed, and 15 pioneers. From the beginning the pioneers were much larger. They do eat a lot, but I expected that with meat breeds. They are not at all lazy! They are very adventurous and curious. They love exploring roosts and large rocks. Every day, I feed them a little bit of tender greens, parsley, and grass. Sometimes they get a little bit of oats. They are 23 days old, and they love these treats. They also love herbal teas made from basil, parsley and/or oregano. This never replaces their daily water (supplemented from ACV). But it is a loved treat. I would just put some sod in there, but grass isn't really plentiful yet. So daily salads it is! I figure this is important as they are going to spend their life on pasture, and should get used to these things early. And so far, this is the most exciting part of their day. Great at foraging, really. I got these guys from MMM, and so far am very happy with them. I was under the impression that they could be bred, but I guess not? Well, too bad. Then, they will all be culled in another few months. No leg problems or other health problems to report. They are very hardy and are mixing just fine with all the layers. I don't yet know which are roosters, but I suspect quite a few. Here are some recent photos:

 

[lazy gardener]

Let me play the devil's advocate here, and ask, "Why can't they be bred?" Yes, they are hybrid birds. Evident by the barred feather on males, and non-barred females. They don't seem at all prone to the issues that plague the CXR. The females make respectable layers. So, they won't breed true. We know that. But, they do have nice meaty stock in their gene pool. So, if you want to hold back a pullet or two, and a rooster, go for it. You should get some nice meaty mutts out of them.

 

[Newtothehens]

I am very new to the world of chickens. So, forgive me. I am having a difficult time telling the males from the females. You are saying males are barred, and females are not. Is that true whether they are dixies or rainbow dixies or pioneers? What I mean is that I know they are all the same bird, but from different hatcheries. But, this is true across the board, from all the hatcheries? How else can I tell them apart? I have been trying to discern comb color, looking for spurs, etc. Also, I understand that techinically I COULD breed them, but was disappointed to learn they wouldn't come true in the next generations. So, I suppose I should try something like a white rocks instead? What I want to do is grow the absolutely best natural poultry I can, out on pasture, with birds that can self perpetuate should I choose to let them and want to maintain a flock. It sounds silly to say, but I want the best, for the health of the community and for the health of the birds and for the health of the pasture. The Cornish x make me uncomfortable, and this is why I went for the pioneer. It was until scouring these forums for the first time that I learned I had made a mistake in their ability to breed true. Also, I thought I would share pictures of some of the birds just for informational purposes, if someone else is interested.

 

[LBKS]

I am very new to the world of chickens. So, forgive me. I am having a difficult time telling the males from the females. You are saying males are barred, and females are not. Is that true whether they are dixies or rainbow dixies or pioneers? What I mean is that I know they are all the same bird, but from different hatcheries. But, this is true across the board, from all the hatcheries? How else can I tell them apart? I have been trying to discern comb color, looking for spurs, etc. Also, I understand that techinically I COULD breed them, but was disappointed to learn they wouldn't come true in the next generations. So, I suppose I should try something like a white rocks instead? What I want to do is grow the absolutely best natural poultry I can, out on pasture, with birds that can self perpetuate should I choose to let them and want to maintain a flock. It sounds silly to say, but I want the best, for the health of the community and for the health of the birds and for the health of the pasture. The Cornish x make me uncomfortable, and this is why I went for the pioneer. It was until scouring these forums for the first time that I learned I had made a mistake in their ability to breed true. Also, I thought I would share pictures of some of the birds just for informational purposes, if someone else is interested.

In barring based sex link crosses, barred hens are crossed to non-barred males and thus the hens only give barring genes to their sons. Thus all barred birds would be males and all non-barred birds would be females. You'd have to know if your particular source hatchery did barring based sex link crossing to know if it's reliable for your batch of birds. I'm not familiar with this hybrid, but the Murray McMurray link doesn't make me think theirs at least is sex linked. If you look at their Pioneer page that comes up from googling, there are some pictures of what appears to be a barred hen based on what I can see of the hackle/saddle feathers. Add in the Q&A sexing question doesn't state using barring as an indicator makes me think they just have barring in the gene pool but no sex link crosses being intentionally made.

As they get older you can use pointed hackle/saddle feathers as an indicator, there are a few exceptions to this rule - some breeds have hen feathered males that this rule wouldn't work on. If you don't care about colors breeding true and you are going to grow them out a ways anyway, you can use this to sex your diverse genetics flock.

If you want a meaty bird you can breed from and sex, you may want something like a barred rock, where they are autosexing by virtue of barring genetics. I can't help too much on that end of your question, my 'meaties' are just culls from my breeding project.

 

[lazy gardener]

My Pioneers came from MMc. All roos were barred, all females were not. As the coloring was similar, I don't think this was a deliberate cross to produce sex linkage, but just think that they ended up using a barred hen for their particular cross. I don't know that all hatcheries use the same exact crosses to produce their Dixies or Pioneers. As LBKS says, or I think inferred: auto sexing or sex linking is not at all necessary if you intend to eat the males anyways. By the time the birds are big enough to process, their gender will be evident from their secondary sex characteristics. This would also be true from any meaty DP bird. Their gender will express itself before you process. But, if you kept a few Pioneers for breeders, you might end up with a very meaty back yard mix bird that would meet all of your needs. IMO keeping the strain pure for the sake of having all of the birds look the same is not necessary.

 

[Newtothehens]

Oh, I don't care about what they look like... I was interested in the barring because I wanted to tell the females from the males. They will all be culled when they reach the right weight and I assume the males will get there first. I only wanted to consider breeding because I would like to maintain my own flock. I would like to more self sustaining. And I would like to do things in a more peaceful and natural way. I want to be able to offer up the best poultry meat and eggs for both those consuming them and for the lives of the birds themselves. If after breeding a bunch of pioneers, they look funny and no longer have some sort of female/male distinction in barring, I don't care. But I do care about them continuing to come to true to growth and weight and ability to forage/be on pasture, and continuing to lay wonderful eggs. If these things disappear with generations, it is not worth it to me. It's not about purity, etc, for me. It's about quality. Perhaps there is a better breed, a hertiage breed... I don't know. I'm new! But these pioneers sure are entertaining!

 

[LBKS]

Some of their size is probably hybrid vigor, so your next generation may not be so large. However if you keep them to breed you could still end up with nicely large birds that are adapted to your local conditions (forage, weather, etc) and your personal method of raising them after a number of years. And if you are raising them all up you'll definitely be able to tell the males from females by the time they reach weight to harvest, so you don't need to worry about barring for determining that.

You can always try it out and see if you like your second generation. Maybe do a side by side compare with a reorder of Pioneers or another breed to see what you like better. With the re-order you could more easily see if your second generation is just too small in size to be worth your time.

 

[lazy gardener]

Regarding keeping and breeding your own flock for eggs and or meat, a very wise BYC mentor once said: Keep the birds you want to eat, eat the birds you don't want to keep. Same for eggs. Save your best eggs for hatching, and eat the ones that aren't the best.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Are you giving them fermented feed? That will cut way down on your feed bill and make their poo much easier on the nose, and easier to clean up also.

Once it comes out of the hen the reason that fermented feed smells better is because fermenting chicken feed reduces the amount of protein that your birds take in.

Please don't take my word for it, research what the university poultry research schools say on the subject.

The higher the % of protein in a poultry ration the more ammonia that is created in the droppings.

 

[lazy gardener]

You'll also see research that states that the chicken on FF has a healthier gut, seen on cross section with increased villi. The probiotics in the FF make the chicken more able to utilize the nutrient in the FF, resulting in less poo stench. So, George: perhaps the reason why chicken poo is more smelly when the chicken is not on fermented feed, as you say b/c they have more available protein (thus more ammonia) bears some merit. My premise is that the chicken on FF is better able to ABSORB that protein, and utilize it, so it is not passed out in the feces. And, because the chicken is better able to absorb the nutrients in the FF, she in turn does not eat as much. Similar to when a dog is on a high quality feed. Their feces are not as bulky, and they are also not as stinky. I'm sure you can find research on either side of the fence to support just about any issue. Be sure you look at who is paying for that research before accepting the study as being valid. Also look at how the study was done, how it is worded, and if it even makes sense. There's also research regarding improvement in feed conversion with broilers on FF, resulting in more cost effective production. I urge the reader to do their own internet searches regarding any subject and come up with their own educated conclusion. Don't take my word for it, don't take George's word for it. Do your own homework and come to your own educated opinion. One thing that can't be argued: I've found that my flock thrives on FF. Less waste, less cost, bright shiny feathers, good production, no disease losses, no issues with rodents b/c there is never any food left out to attract them. That's my personal testimony that can't be argued.