Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[YdogsflY]

What have I twisted? You said Alltech was marketing. You said you feed a mineral pack that contained everything your birds needed. You said your mineral pack was the same as Alltech's product. You said some birds were as productive as they were 80 years,ago, offered up your New Hampshires as an example, and then later admitted they were not as productive.

You do not sell poultry, either live or dressed, or eggs? So you deprive your birds of nutrients to get them to a weight at a later time? Why do you feed oyster shell if the mineral pack contains all that they need? You said you fee all birds the same.

My comment was that birds today are not as productive as they were 80 years ago. You disagreed. You offered your New Hampshires as an example, and then admitted they are not as productive as birds 80 years ago. People have different standards. A serama bantam could be considered productive, since you could eat the meat. It takes a long time to produce very little. A bird that lays one egg per year produces. The point was that people have low expectations, and mislead people. If a bird takes longer to reach a certain weight, it is not as productive. If a bird lays fewer eggs per year, it is less productive. That is comparing standard bred birds to standard bred birds. You can forget it if you compare commercial birds.

I hope your customers become educated one day. In the meantime, you should be honest with them.

Look, it's obvious we have different opinions as to what productive fowl are. I'm not comparing the NH's to my leghorns or sexlinks or broilers. From my understanding 80 years ago 3 eggs a week from a hen was considered fairly good on the average homestead/farm. What should the NH's be producing to meet your requirements? If my low expectations are anything more than that, well, I don't know what to say. The NH's are for meat and maybe again I have low expectations, but I see a better carcass on them than the majority of "dual purpose" birds around. Certainly not intentionally misleading people, nor do I see what I said as misleading.

What I knew of Alltech is that they sell minerals. Their posters are flashy with big words. I will do some reading on Alltech to educate myself. I guess I should also find the right words to use when talking about bags of minerals you put in feed. Because just calling them minerals does not appear to be good enough. I use a poultry premix. I call it mineral. "Pick up the minerals while your out that way."

The feed I make is a balanced "all flock" type of feed around 20% protein. Worked with the extension office and a local mill at the start so I would get it right. All the birds eat it and do well on it. Birds are not deprived of anything. The layers along with the NH's get oyster shell on the side because the feed is intentionally lower on the calcium than a layer feed for the non laying birds. There is still calcium in the feed.

Broilers and ducks are done at 6-8 weeks. It's an easy rotation with adding a new flock every 2 weeks. Sometimes they get too big in that time period and we mve to the next flock. Majority of sales are for birds from 3lb-5lbs carcass weight. We slaughter around 700 birds a week in the summer, deliver twice a week, and also mail products out.

My daughter sells the eggs. It's not part of the business. The poultry is only half of the farm. The hogs, sheep, and cattle sell well also.

My customers are educated, but there you go again. You can assume all you want, it doesn't make it true.

 

[gojira]

Look, it's obvious we have different opinions as to what productive fowl are. I'm not comparing the NH's to my leghorns or sexlinks or broilers. From my understanding 80 years ago 3 eggs a week from a hen was considered fairly good on the average homestead/farm. What should the NH's be producing to meet your requirements? If my low expectations are anything more than that, well, I don't know what to say. The NH's are for meat and maybe again I have low expectations, but I see a better carcass on them than the majority of "dual purpose" birds around. Certainly not intentionally misleading people, nor do I see what I said as misleading.

What I knew of Alltech is that they sell minerals. Their posters are flashy with big words. I will do some reading on Alltech to educate myself. I guess I should also find the right words to use when talking about bags of minerals you put in feed. Because just calling them minerals does not appear to be good enough. I use a poultry premix. I call it mineral. "Pick up the minerals while your out that way."

The feed I make is a balanced "all flock" type of feed around 20% protein. Worked with the extension office and a local mill at the start so I would get it right. All the birds eat it and do well on it. Birds are not deprived of anything. The layers along with the NH's get oyster shell on the side because the feed is intentionally lower on the calcium than a layer feed for the non laying birds. There is still calcium in the feed.

Broilers and ducks are done at 6-8 weeks. It's an easy rotation with adding a new flock every 2 weeks. Sometimes they get too big in that time period and we mve to the next flock. Majority of sales are for birds from 3lb-5lbs carcass weight. We slaughter around 700 birds a week in the summer, deliver twice a week, and also mail products out.

My daughter sells the eggs. It's not part of the business. The poultry is only half of the farm. The hogs, sheep, and cattle sell well also.

My customers are educated, but there you go again. You can assume all you want, it doesn't make it true.

You might want to look at some historical data before you make assumptions. Honestly, New Hampshires should have become more productive over 80 years, not less productive. My statement was that birds are less productive now than 80 years ago. You disagreed, and offered your New Hampshires as an example, but later admitted your New Hampshires are not as productive as the same breed 80 years ago, which was my initial point. If it takes 18 weeks to make a meat bird, you should start over. They were processed at 12 weeks 80 years ago.

If your customers are educated, why do they pay a premium for a slick sales pitch and fairy tales? Do they pay a premium out of pity or something? Most people pay a premium if they get more, not less. Something tells me your customers are mislead not educated.

If you are learning, ask questions, don't make statements. All false statements do is mislead others.

 

[gojira]

Pictures of my birds are around. My birds are shown.

 

[BantyChooks]

Pictures of my birds are around. My birds are shown.

I'd love to see your birds .

Edited by Staff

 

[BantyChooks]

For me, I like to see credentials before I put any great amount of trust in someone's information. This is the Internet, literally anyone can come on and profess to be an expert—so I have to admit I am kind of wary of anyone giving advice on controversial topics, because I dislike being 'taken'. I have been 'taken' before, on many things, but I don't try to be. So, what I do if given information without backup or other credentials is thank the person, keep the information in mind, and keep looking. Sometimes the person turns out to be right. Other times, they turn out to have just been spewing nonsense. That is why I hope you'll forgive me if I am skeptic of some things you say.

 

[gojira]

For me, I like to see credentials before I put any great amount of trust in someone's information. This is the Internet, literally anyone can come on and profess to be an expert—so I have to admit I am kind of wary of anyone giving advice on controversial topics, because I dislike being 'taken'. I have been 'taken' before, on many things, but I don't try to be. So, what I do if given information without backup or other credentials is thank the person, keep the information in mind, and keep looking. Sometimes the person turns out to be right. Other times, they turn out to have just been spewing nonsense. That is why I hope you'll forgive me if I am skeptic of some things you say.

Someone has posted my name in another forum. I have dropped big hints, even on this forum, even in the last couple of days. I have not professed to be an expert. Many newbies are the ones professing to be experts. I want people to be skeptical of what I say, and take the initiative to look them up. They will learn more that way. That is why I tend to pose questions instead of making statements.

 

[BantyChooks]

Someone has posted my name in another forum. I have dropped big hints, even on this forum, even in the last couple of days. I have not professed to be an expert. Many newbies are the ones professing to be experts. I want people to be skeptical of what I say, and take the initiative to look them up. They will learn more that way. That is why I tend to pose questions instead of making statements.

Well, that's one way to do it, lol.

 

[cgmccary]

Fwiw, NH are a dual purpose bird. Thry should lay a fair amount of eggs but their bodies are built to be a good meat bird. A NH should never lay like a Leghorn. If yours does, you no longer have a NH. I would also add they lean to the meat side of things. The more a meat bird, the less their egg laying capability.

 

[gojira]

Fwiw, NH are a dual purpose bird. They should lay a fair amount of eggs but their bodies are built to be a good meat bird. A NH should never lay like a Leghorn. If yours does, you no longer have a NH. I would also add they lean to the meat side of things. The more a meat bird, the less their egg laying capability.

If you were referring to my post, I was comparing New Hampshires of the past to New Hampshires of the present. I am told there is still a meat type New Hampshire, but most fall short of what they were 80 years ago. The same goes for egg production. As I said, people tend to have low standards, and don't look at the actual numbers. Why would you no longer have a New Hampshire if it laid well? People on BYC are always saying type makes the breed, and egg production has nothing to do with type. How do you come up with the statement "The more a meat bird, the less their egg laying capability"? I remember you have said several times that breeding for the standard is breeding for production, so with your post, you contradict that.

 

[cgmccary]

I wasn't referring to any one post in particular as I didn't read them all, just some of the last posts or two. Yes, breeding to SOP is breeding for production. Production refers to meat as well as egg production. A Leghorn's body and other egg laying breeds are built for egg production and not meat. A Cornish body is built for meat and not eggs. A dual purpose bird is built for something in between the two. That said, some dual purpose birds lean toward meat, i.e. NH, Buckeyes, whereas others lean to egg more, RIR. Look at their backgrounds too. I am also not saying a Buckeye or NH shouldn't be a good egg layer, but they aren't a Leghorn and should be bred to be built like one.
Have you seen the best NH lately? They are nice and would compete with those of the past. I have seen and handled them. Well built. Same with Buckeyes.