Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[Arielle]

Found this article, and thought I would post it for basic information. Mentions some heritage birds good as layers. This article is old 2002, and isbefore the increase in poultry and the improvements since that time. Also Coccidia vaccine is now available.

http://www.mofga.org/Publications/M...r/Summer2002/BobHawes/tabid/2091/Default.aspx

 

[fowlman01]

Found this article, and thought I would post it for basic information. Mentions some heritage birds good as layers. This article is old 2002, and isbefore the increase in poultry and the improvements since that time. Also Coccidia vaccine is now available.

http://www.mofga.org/Publications/M...r/Summer2002/BobHawes/tabid/2091/Default.aspx

"Purebred production Rhode Island Reds, White Plymouth Rocks and other heritage breeds are good choices for those who want to maintain the old breeds".......... I'm not sure what he is trying to say here. It is purebred or production RIR etc etc.

Walt

 

[cukooformarans]

I thought he meant purebred birds from a flock that has been bred with an emphasis on utility? Could that be it?

I did not know about light restriction and that hatching at the "wrong" time of the year could result in stunted birds. How much of a difference is there? What can be done to mitigate it? Also, what effect does it have on future offspring? I am assuming the impact depends on exactly when they are hatched? what about birds hatched in late january or february?? Can someone elaborate on that for me a little???

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I thought the same thing . . . a contradiction to how we have defined the words here on this thread and Bob's heritage thread. BOb's RIR are about 200 eggs a year from what I have read in old posts. THat seems pretty good IMO. Not a production leghorn, but nothing else is. A little blurb at the bottom of the article lends me to think he was saying "production" .

 

[NanaKat]

Just found this thread and will go back to read from the beginning.

Comment: Knowing when your breed was developed to lay best helps determine the best fertility rate for the rooster over the hens. Example...Wyandottes were bred to lay and hatch best during winter and early spring. A Wyandotte rooster will be at his peak of sperm production during that time and chicks hatched from those eggs appear to be stronger. ...at least in my flock.

 

[fowlman01]

I thought the same thing . . . a contradiction to how we have defined the words here on this thread and Bob's heritage thread. BOb's RIR are about 200 eggs a year from what I have read in old posts. THat seems pretty good IMO. Not a production leghorn, but nothing else is. A little blurb at the bottom of the article lends me to think he was saying "production" .

The word "production" usually means that the bird is not pure bred, but enhanced to lay more eggs at the expense of qualities that make it an exhibition bird. 200 eggs a year is not considered a production bird by most. It is certainly a decent amount and meets what the breed was designed to do, but egg farms generally would not use a bird that eats a lot and lays only 200 eggs a year. It is not a big thing, just a bit misleading in my mind. I have never seen purebred and production used to describe the same bird before. These SOP birds if bred to the Standard do what they were meant to do. If they are dual purpose birds, they lay well and make a good meal, but would never be called a production egg or meat bird.

Walt

 

[cukooformarans]

What about effect of hatch timing on mature size?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Thanks for posting this link, Arielle. It's what I would call a positive negative lesson. It teaches (positive) where not to go (negative). The first three paragraphs say it all, and it has all been said before again and again and again..... This is the same banter that extension types have been parrotting since the early mid-20th century.

The first paragraph is one matter. Corporate hybrids are the easiest route for commercial egg-layers. There's not a doubt; just like a Dunken Heines box is the easiest way to make brownies. About 2 1/2 weeks ago I had a brownie made from scratch. It had such a full and unique flavor that I kind of crumbled. Then, in addition to the taste sensation, there's the visual image of the care and time that went into the making of the brownies that adds to the overall experience.

We have customers swear that our Ancona eggs are the best eggs they know, some of them trained chefs, and they're comparing them to other local farms, local farms that use corporate hybrids for their production. They insist that our eggs are better. I could ride that wave of praise, but the truth is I can't really tell. Still, there are flavor differences in apples and tomatoes why not eggs. I just might be lacking in the egg flavor discernment test, but it's not the point. There's a local farmer in the area who raises purebred, registered Hereford cattle.They get practically all of our beef business. Others we know, customers of ours, do the same, and say that it's the best beef available. Again, I don't know. I don't know that I can really tell the difference, but I just gave him a heavy chunck of change for an assorted box of beef. He's a humble hard-working man, and he smiles big and says thank you. He loves to see me coming because, yes, he knows I'm going to spend money, but he knows it's because I honor his farm. The purchase honors the breed, honors the farmer, honors the heritage, honors the life. There are some farms in the area that just collect random cattle, fatten them, and slaughter them. I avoid them. I guess it's better than nothing, but I want to see that breed thriving. I tell folks all the time that a thriving breed is part of a thriving farm, and when I see that in an operation I tell everyone about it. Earlier we were asked about our business, and I've honestly avoided it because it's a rather long and daunting response. Still, here's a big part of what we've always done, we call corporate food, corporate food, and we make it about more than the product. For anyone that will listen, we make it about the breed--the name of the breed, the farm, and the life, which is, in my opinion, the heritage. When I see a local farmer raising ISA Browns, I'd rather just go buy Pete-n-Jerry's mass produced organic eggs. They're doing it better; they're doing it more efficiently. Our first tenet has always been breed preservation. Someone approached us, all in a rush, at the last Christmas market and asked whether or not our eggs are organic. I answered honestly that we are not and that the goal of our farm is breed preservation; we are first and foremost about the chickens. She looked disappointed and walked away. 20 mintues later she came back and bought eggs. Why? I don't know. Perhaps she'll return, perhaps not. But she's one of these that follows sound bites. "Organic" was her sound bite, but now she has a new idea "breed preservation". It's in there now, milling about; who knows where it will go. Do the dude's ISA Browns lay more than our Anconas? Yep. Are our eggs cooler and more interesting? Yep.

The second paragraph in the article is full of veiled half-understandings because they present this skewed reality of production-bred vs. standard-bred. Hatcheries are gradually transforming all of their "rare breeds" into shabby-looking Leghorn wanna-be's. They simply are no longer what the title says. I know that some people hear that statement with suspision, but they're just not. Their bodies just aren't what they're supposed to be. In illustration, the Deerfield Fair is the third largest display of poultry in New England after the Boston Expo and the North Eastern Poultry Congress (which is about to take place and which I totally recommend). We had over 800 birds at the fair. It is the only APA sanctioned fair in the state. Still, there were tons of hatchery birds. Earlier in the year I had passed a cull White Dorking female I had used as a broody to a poultry friend. It was just going to be used as a layer; so I didn't give it much thought. Her son entered it into the fair. Oiweh! One of my culls was at the fair; I was secretly mortified, and, consequently, will never make that mistake again. Nevertheless, it took champion English. I saw the ribbon and hung my head. Slowly I did the walk of shame up to Don, who was judging the class, and I pointed to the ribbon. He just shrugged, and said, "Hey, at least it has proper type." Actually, he was right. There were a lot of English birds there, primarily hatchery "Buff Orpingtons", but none of them were Orpingtons. They were bony egg-layers with a bunch of fluff. If that's what's desired, get an ISA-Brown.

Heritage breeding goals are different. In almost all cases, the SOP standard for shape for each breed of large fowl is written to a specific production niche. There are benefits and disadvantages to each shape. Which shape is best for our needs? The answer to that is, perhaps, the answr of which breed ot raise. Nevertheless, breeding to the standard doesn't guarantee production. It does, however, properly poise them for their purpose. The SOP and Hogan's The Call of the Hen are either at odds or in sinc. It's a question of not putting the cart before the horse: SOP first, Call of the Hen second. You can take SOP birds and then start selecting for breed appropriate productivity within the guidelines of their standard.
If one starts with hatchery sourced "production-bred" stock, or perhaps uses it to cross into more SOP appropriate stock (and OMG I've been down this road), theresultant offspring will be so far from the standard and so few of the hatchlings will approxiamte the standard, that one is obliged to disregard anything else save the standard and breed for type. Only then can you go back toward steps to advancing egg-production.

The third paragraph, which rides the wave of the second, is absolute bologna....for the most part. Yes, Sumatras aren't farm fowl per se, but most of the sources extension types draw their information from would say that La Fleche are strictly ornamental, which is a bunch of ripe poppycock written once by some stooge who had never eaten coq-au-vin with la poule flechoise. This silly idea, amid several other silly ideas inexperienced extension folk have put forward, have hurt many a breed for no more good reason than ignorance and fad. The reality is, with proper breeding and dedication, almost every large fowl breed in the Standard is ideally farm worthy. They just need to be bred up.

We talk about this breed or that breed, and this or that chart is built on-line to parrot the same tired information from one generation to another, but the chicken reality is that a "breed" is only as good as its strain. Meaning it's what we all make of our birds that matters. We just have to have the patience and commitment to do it. One can only ride the wave of breed reputation for so long, for it's about the strain. Although ideally selected it would not be the case, it is possible to have Standardbred Jersey Giants outlay Standard bred Campines, if the former are being selected for productivity and the latter are not. Simply claiming that traditionally Campines are said to be the Leghorns of Beligum is not enough. Campines per se don't necessarily lay well just because of their Standardbred potential; however, bred to the Standard and then selected beyond that for laying-specific productivity they could result in one of the best laying strains of fowl extant in America today.
These breeds have suffered neglect for ages; so it's going to take ages to turn that around. Still, we'll have years and years of pleasure bringing them around, and, IMO, that's a good life and heritage. It's perfectly possible to develop a farm or homestead worthy strain of Partidge Rocks or Houdans or Lakenvelders. We just have to start, not give up, not switch breed every five years, and not over-extend our resources by trying to do more breeds that our set allows for.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

What about effect of hatch timing on mature size?

I don't really know if this holds true in mild climates, but up here early to mid-spring is really the way to go.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I think the spirt of this article is chicks purchased for $1.50 each or something like this we are talking hatchery chickens. Pure breed Production is simply the cherry eggers that will lay about 275 eggs a pullet year. The normal average flock of Rhode Island Reds or Standard Breed dark dark Rhode Island Reds will lay about 175 per year. Thats good enough for their purpose as a dual purpose fowl. You can push them to lay more say 200 eggs per pullet year but that will take about five years of trap nesting or selection to get the females to lay that high. Most people who are top R I Red breeders dont do this nonsense only a guy like me would take up five years of work to do this but it was fun and I did it.. Any more eggs than that you Risk the chance of ruptured oval ducts or blow outs on these females. These production birds normally are in the stew pot with in two years in commerical settings. The name of the game is high yield and then replace then with new young pullets. Its my idea if you are trying to make a profit on eggs you have your females lay as many as they can and most of these are in wire pens and then after they go through a molt shes off to the processing plant and into our meat market for us to eat. We have a poultry plant up the road from me that has thousands of brown egg layers doing this in cages.

In regards to white rock production birds I really have not seen any live only pictures. They do the same I think for the production egg producers.

There seems to be a over lap on production and standard breed birds for the beginner. They just can not figure out why Standard breed birds are not high yield layers I guess the reason is they have never had nothing but commerical production chickens. Its kind of like a Morgan Horse you would not see one in the Kentucky Derby and you wont see a race horse in a Sled pulling contest.

Robert Hawes wrote a great article for our Plymouth Rock Fanciers Club Newsletter on Silver Pencil led Color. He is a great Poultryman and judge.