FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[CindyinSD]

Sure


5 gallons of this feed mix is two days worth of feed, with one day left over for backsplash...for:
1 - 14mo Ayam Cemani
4 - 25wk Cornish X (these are laying birds)
20 - 25wk Barred Rocks
3 - 19wk French Toulouse Geese (it's a supplement for them, they mostly eat grass)
6 - 15wk BBS Ameraucana
5 - 13wk Ayam Cemani
6 - 10wk BBS Ameraucana

45 birds (sorry for miscounting and stating 38 above lol)


1 part Soybean meal (47% protein...different feed mills have varying levels of protein in their soybean meal)
1 part Whole Wheat
1 part Whole Oats
1 part Corn (cracked or shell is fine, sometimes if I'm in a pinch I'll sub a quality scratch for this...corn is cheaper)
0.3 part Calf Manna (a little over 1/4 part)
0.3 part Black Oil Sunflower Seeds
1 cup vita-pack (not all feed mills/co-ops have this...it's fine without it)

Protein/lb - 20.13%
Calories/lb - 1608cal (1/4lb per bird will give sufficient calories for most birds...I supplement with dry mixed feed as scratch, food scraps from my kitchen, etc)
Price/lb - $0.26
Price/50lb - $13.00

You can add any vitamin mix that is safe for chickens. Vitamin E is always good, as is vitamin B complex. I add 2 500mg capsules niacin per remix...because my geese eat directly out of the bucket all day for 2 days out of 3. You can also add things like blackstrap molasses etc...just watch caloric content. But the base mix above is good enough to get by on. I use this feed year round without much amendment.

I told my local feed mill it costs me $12/bag to mix myself...they offered to mix it for $13/bag...so I'm dead even and only have to drive to the mill to pick it up lol...which is better than driving to five mills to buy the individual ingredients at the best pricing.

Hope that helps. This feed mix is working wonderfully for my birds....but you should definitely do your own research. Also, if you decide to use this you should gradually switch (75% crumble or pellet, 25% grain the first week, 50%/50% the second, 25%/75% the third...etc). My chickens seem pretty resilient...but I have heard of people having issues when they switch from crumble to grain based feed. I don't know if there's any actual correlation there, nor what their overall setup is like. But mine absolutely freaking love it.

Thanks! I was until recently mixing mine using only soybean meal for the protein plus wheat, barley, oats & boss. I never thought of calf manna. I wasn't real happy about the disproportionate quantity of soy... plus I got tired of all the bins and so on. We do have an elevator in town but I don't know that they'd do a custom mix in small amounts. Maybe I'll drop by and ask. How much do you have to buy at one go to get them to mix for you?

 

[CindyinSD]

Thanks! I was until recently mixing mine using only soybean meal for the protein plus wheat, barley, oats & boss. I never thought of calf manna. I wasn't real happy about the disproportionate quantity of soy... plus I got tired of all the bins and so on. We do have an elevator in town but I don't know that they'd do a custom mix in small amounts. Maybe I'll drop by and ask. How much do you have to buy at one go to get them to mix for you?

And I'm impressed you know how many birds you have at all! I have a whole heckuva lot of chickens of various ages & breeds, a smaller population of much hungrier heritage turkeys, sixteen geese & four ducks. They all free range all day and get their grains in the evenings.

Once the weather cools off I'll be slaughtering most of the geese, most of the toms, most of the roosters & some of the hens.

Before I can do that though, I have to can a LOT of stock to clear out some freezer space. It's just been so hot I haven't wanted to cook anything that I can't do in the smoker or quick on the grill. Soon... I can't feed all these birdies all winter.

 

[CrisAnderson27]

Thanks! I was until recently mixing mine using only soybean meal for the protein plus wheat, barley, oats & boss. I never thought of calf manna. I wasn't real happy about the disproportionate quantity of soy... plus I got tired of all the bins and so on. We do have an elevator in town but I don't know that they'd do a custom mix in small amounts. Maybe I'll drop by and ask. How much do you have to buy at one go to get them to mix for you?

I can do one 50lb bag if I choose. Calf manna is 25% protein if I recall.

The percentage of soybean isn't too bad in this, and fermenting it makes it work out well. I have zero waste in my feed troughs.

Actually I'll take a quick video showing my feed setup. It works exceptionally well for feeding fermented grain.

And I'm impressed you know how many birds you have at all! I have a whole heckuva lot of chickens of various ages & breeds, a smaller population of much hungrier heritage turkeys, sixteen geese & four ducks. They all free range all day and get their grains in the evenings.

Once the weather cools off I'll be slaughtering most of the geese, most of the toms, most of the roosters & some of the hens.

Before I can do that though, I have to can a LOT of stock to clear out some freezer space. It's just been so hot I haven't wanted to cook anything that I can't do in the smoker or quick on the grill. Soon... I can't feed all these birdies all winter.

I keep my livestock on a spreadsheet lol. I feel your pain on the rest. Anyone who thinks there's a cost savings with livestock doesn't understand feeding, or labor costs

 

[Molpet]

I can do one 50lb bag if I choose. Calf manna is 25% protein if I recall.

The percentage of soybean isn't too bad in this, and fermenting it makes it work out well. I have zero waste in my feed troughs.

Actually I'll take a quick video showing my feed setup. It works exceptionally well for feeding fermented grain.



I keep my livestock on a spreadsheet lol. I feel your pain on the rest. Anyone who thinks there's a cost savings with livestock doesn't understand feeding, or labor costs

Yes I was one who thought I would be ahead raising for eggs...then I thought if I hatched the extras I could break even... now I figure it's a hobby and hobbies aren't supposed to make money. I would break even if I was aggressive culling poor layers

 

[PioneerChicks]

I'm gonna jump in here!

Anyone doing it? I discovered it from a friend of mine, I think she found out about it in a gardening guide.

How long have you been doing it? Several months now.

Your methods? I'm writing an article about my method right now!

Grains/feeds used in this manner? Whole grains from Big D Ranch.

Your overall review of this method of feeding? AMAZING! The chickens eat less and spill less, it is much healthier for them, and they absolutely love it!

 

[NickyPick]

Thanks! I was until recently mixing mine using only soybean meal for the protein plus wheat, barley, oats & boss. I never thought of calf manna. I wasn't real happy about the disproportionate quantity of soy... plus I got tired of all the bins and so on. We do have an elevator in town but I don't know that they'd do a custom mix in small amounts. Maybe I'll drop by and ask. How much do you have to buy at one go to get them to mix for you?

I have a similar mixture: barley, oats, BOSS, scratch grains and I use catfish feed for the protein booster. The only place I could find the soybean meal was super expensive and didn't go over too well. For my older turkeys, I will stir in a half scoop of wild game crumbles before taking it out. I've been using this for my 70+ birds since 2012 and we all love it. I did stop for 6 weeks this summer, and went to a layer pellet - it got just toooo hot to mix the feed up. I'll figure out something different next year as I'm not going to that again. Within 3 days, the barn stunk. Just a general chicken poop smell that I hadn't dealt with in so many years. There was also tons of wastage - pellets just lying on the ground around the feeders that no one ate. It brought in a family of raccoons and possums at night to clean it up. So, we're back to the FF with the cayenne pepper added in (to keep it unpalatable for the varmints). I would LOVE to find a place that could mix it up for me, though.

 

[Jenthehen127]

No one? Okay...I'll start...

This will not be the first time I've fed fermented feeds to my chickens...just the first time I fermented their grain-based feeds. In the past I've always kept unpasteurized ACV(with the mother intact) in their water and have also fed them fermented pumpkins in late winter/early spring.

This year, though, I happened to become curious about the health benefits of feeding them to the meaties in order to get more bang for my buck and also to keep them from having the smelly, diarrhea poops that are characteristic for these birds.

Here are some of the articles I found that were helpful...it is a lot of information through which to sift, but there are gold nuggets in that thar stream...

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajb/article/viewFile/60378/48610

http://www.pjbs.org/ijps/fin640.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724

Last but not least...ACV info~interesting stuff if you take it further and research the benefits of the bacteria therein:

http://silvalab.fsnhp.msstate.edu//vinegar_lactic.pdf

Of course, I knew little of fermenting grains, so I just had to start it somewhere....and it turned out much easier than I suspected. I haven't been doing it long enough and on enough birds to give good, solid results and I'm hoping to hear from others who can but I can tell you what I have seen thus far.

Anyone doing it? That would be me!

How long have you been doing it? For some time but this is the first time doing it with the base feed ration of grains.

Your methods? Right now I'm just using non-medicated chick starter for 54 meaties and one young WR roo. My methods consist of two 5 gal. buckets sitting one within the other. The top bucket has small holes drilled in the bottom and sides to form a sieve(this will come in handy later when I ferment whole grains and want to drain off the fermented water).

Add chick starter, water, a glug or two of the UP/ACV for a starter culture and stir. Wait until the next day and stir some more, try to keep the whole mix moist to promote the fermentation process. You ought to smell a slight sour smell and see bubbles rising in the mash...when you smell and see this, you have active fermentation going on.

If you don't have anything to jump start this mix, as long as you keep it at room temp and let the air into it, it should form it's own cultures within 24 hours and they will grow stronger the longer they are allowed to "cook" or "work"...think sourdough bread starter when you picture what it looks and smells like.

I don't empty the water off this mix and the water lying in the bottom of the bucket sieve system is holding all the strong cultured growth of good bacteria, so when I add water it mixes with it and rises up past the grain in the top bucket to saturate the whole mix. This reusing the cultures from the old water is called back-slopping and it will make your fermentation quicker and stronger and also give you a heavier growth of good bacteria.

I also give UP/ACV in all their water.


Grains/feeds used in this manner? Right now, the chick starter, but when it is done(#50 bag), I'll switch to cracked corn, barley and wheat grains. I'll venture to say they will probably have to ferment a little longer then the fine starter crumbles.

Your overall review of this method of feeding? So far, I find it easy to do, a little messier than regular feeding when dealing with chicks and chick-height feeders but will soon be able to use it in feeders that can be elevated and not trampled in.

I also am very pleased to see that my CX chicks have perfect little formed poops instead of their usual yellow, frothy, stinky squirts so typical of the breed. Their brooder has no bad smells, the chicks are eating the feed well and are growing quickly. They don't seem to need to drink as often as when they first arrived and I attribute this to two reasons: 1. They are being fed moist feed. 2. They are not dehydrated by having liquid~ and frequent~ poops.

The WR roo was a gift and arrived a few days ago..he is probably 5 mo. old. He seemed reluctant to eat the mix and acted like he was eating poop or something the first few times he ate it.

Now he seems to have developed quite a taste for it and is cleaning his plate well! His feces have improved in color, texture and odor also since he first arrived.

Only time will tell how this feeding method pans out but I'm willing to try it and see. I am doing this to improve bird health and performance and to gain more feed efficacy, thus spending less money on feed costs.

I ferment my girls feed. This is my first flock, so I've had them since late March. I started fermenting their chick crumbles. I switched to scratch grains probably in June. My flock is small, so I use a gallon Mason jar in my kitchen. I add ACV, oregano oil, cayenne pepper, garlic...whatever suits me at the moment. (Although the garlic STINKS!) I prefer ACV in their water as it also make the mash stinky. I only used it as a starter. I use a slotted spoon to remove how much I need and the add new grain and some water to the jar to replace whats been used. I stir it all up and then cover and leave it. My girls love it, and seem to be healthy so far. I do it because I think its healthy for our girls. They are layers and our pets as well. I think I pay $13 for a 50 lb bag of scratch which lasts us forever!

 

[CindyinSD]

Sure


5 gallons of this feed mix is two days worth of feed, with one day left over for backsplash...for:
1 - 14mo Ayam Cemani
4 - 25wk Cornish X (these are laying birds)
20 - 25wk Barred Rocks
3 - 19wk French Toulouse Geese (it's a supplement for them, they mostly eat grass)
6 - 15wk BBS Ameraucana
5 - 13wk Ayam Cemani
6 - 10wk BBS Ameraucana

45 birds (sorry for miscounting and stating 38 above lol)


1 part Soybean meal (47% protein...different feed mills have varying levels of protein in their soybean meal)
1 part Whole Wheat
1 part Whole Oats
1 part Corn (cracked or shell is fine, sometimes if I'm in a pinch I'll sub a quality scratch for this...corn is cheaper)
0.3 part Calf Manna (a little over 1/4 part)
0.3 part Black Oil Sunflower Seeds
1 cup vita-pack (not all feed mills/co-ops have this...it's fine without it)

Protein/lb - 20.13%
Calories/lb - 1608cal (1/4lb per bird will give sufficient calories for most birds...I supplement with dry mixed feed as scratch, food scraps from my kitchen, etc)
Price/lb - $0.26
Price/50lb - $13.00

You can add any vitamin mix that is safe for chickens. Vitamin E is always good, as is vitamin B complex. I add 2 500mg capsules niacin per remix...because my geese eat directly out of the bucket all day for 2 days out of 3. You can also add things like blackstrap molasses etc...just watch caloric content. But the base mix above is good enough to get by on. I use this feed year round without much amendment.

I told my local feed mill it costs me $12/bag to mix myself...they offered to mix it for $13/bag...so I'm dead even and only have to drive to the mill to pick it up lol...which is better than driving to five mills to buy the individual ingredients at the best pricing.

Hope that helps. This feed mix is working wonderfully for my birds....but you should definitely do your own research. Also, if you decide to use this you should gradually switch (75% crumble or pellet, 25% grain the first week, 50%/50% the second, 25%/75% the third...etc). My chickens seem pretty resilient...but I have heard of people having issues when they switch from crumble to grain based feed. I don't know if there's any actual correlation there, nor what their overall setup is like. But mine absolutely freaking love it.

One more question; are the parts you give measured by weight or volume? Okay... two... The 1 cup vitapack; is that per 50 lb bag?

 

[CrisAnderson27]

One more question; are the parts you give measured by weight or volume? Okay... two... The 1 cup vitapack; is that per 50 lb bag?

Weird...I never got notification of this!

I'm not sure why I put 'cup' to be honest. It's supposed to be .1 part. A little goes a long way.

 

[CindyinSD]

Weird...I never got notification of this!

I'm not sure why I put 'cup' to be honest. It's supposed to be .1 part. A little goes a long way.

Thanks! Soooo, weight or volume? (I assume weight, but...)