FYI: over the counter antibiotics prohibited w/o prescription after 06/23

[dawg53]

I didnt see ivermectin on the list so im good I dont buy the other stuff id sooner cull a bird that need that before paying allot for something that might not even work

If you're using Ivermectin on your birds, it has lost its efficacy in treating poultry worms as well as poultry mites in some parts of the country due to overuse. Not to mention it has a long withdrawal period because it stays in the blood stream for a long time.

 

[Poultrybonkers]

If you're using Ivermectin on your birds, it has lost its efficacy in treating poultry worms as well as poultry mites in some parts of the country due to overuse. Not to mention it has a long withdrawal period because it stays in the blood stream for a long time.

I use to use it once in awhile for mites still works for me but i dont treat them as often anymore because its time consuming and within months due to being by an old barn with rodents they get infested again so now they can dust themselves or deal with it.

 

[ChknMama50]

I'm delighted - I'd rather some chickens die than we do for lack of working antibiotics
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63666024

Do have to agree that it's very frustrating to see people abusing antibiotics and getting rid of the ability to get SOME antibiotics OTC- that is such a wonderful option for those chickens who truly Need them and owners who are responsible in their usage but can't afford a vet or don't have an avian vet available!!
Here's a quote from the article you linked to that sums up the major issue:

"The overuse of antibiotics, in both human medicine and agriculture, has seen them become less effective and led to the rise of 'superbugs' - strains of bacteria that can no longer be treated by certain drugs."

Not sure I'd go so far as to agree with your particular comment ;-) haha but I DO agree- it's a huge "pet peeve" of mine for many, many years as a former CRNI who worked almost solely on doing IV antibiotics on humans and as an ICU nurse before that- hearing just HOW flippant people are about these meds!

Can't even begin to tell you how many otherwise intelligent people will stop their antibiotic prescription before it's complete because they "feel better"- EVEN when they've been told repeatedly by the doctor, the nurse, the pharmacist, AND others for YEARS to please, please do NOT do that- ALWAYS, always finish your full dose- this careless behavior is why we have "SUPER BUGS" to begin with...

Now that same flippant action is going to hurt innocent animals and farmers/owners too!! Not sure they should pay for the actions of people who don't bother to put in the effort to figure out WHAT, WHY, and truly correctly HOW to use medications.... oye... sorry!! ;-) but just now finding out that this is going to happen in June...no wonder I'm having a bit of trouble finding meds for my poor sick chicken now!! As if it's not hard enough to become the one to figure out the problem, the proper treatment- and then HOW re: dosages etc. with chickens that the manufacturers won't help as it's being used "off label" so all I can do is THANK YOU THANK YOU, thank you!!! to all the wonderful 'experts' on this site who frankly deserve some type of real medal for having the patience of saints!!! I'm blown away by how many threads I read where they're given the very answer they are looking for and then two PAGES later are still acting like they have NO idea what to do.... much less taking the time to read the entire thread- yeah, it's a pain to all of us ;-) but doesn't take THAT much to finish reading or at least skim thru for relevant content and not ask the same question over again that's already been answered repeatedly..... You guys truly are saints!! (am starting to realize part of the problem must be when it's more "real time" and they've answered by the questioner hasn't seen it yet...but years later it's crazy to read!! ;-) lol

Great forum though- thank you so much to esp. a handful of names I see repeatedly here and on other forums even that take such time and effort to share their wisdom with those of us who are starting off CLUEless when it comes to chickens!! ;-) Tough stuff to sort thru and deal with when something you love or even just feel responsible for is suffering... Learning as much as possible is part of being a responsible owner I guess and I can only pray I can retain it all or at least take good notes that I can access much quicker!!! ;-) lol

 

[ChknMama50]

@ Azygous could you check my math/thinking on giving Oxytetracycline (Liquamycin LA-200 from TSC is quickest I can find- otc without vet available)
I have an Easter Egger- the one in the avatar "Woodsy" and this sweet little girl is either dealing with ascites OR possibly an infection or bad inflammation from a reproductive issue such as EYP.
**FYI-I WILL post this as well in a new post in illnesses but need to run out and going to hit 'reply for now'.... I appreciate ANY help you or others can provide...

Just realized in the last couple weeks that she is indeed STILL not laying since her particularly hard molt this past late fall (long story a blue egg layer we have has been laying suddenly green eggs like Woodsy and her sister PeeWee do - the only two I couldn't tell whose was whose in the past. For some reason Dandy started to lay green eggs and I didn't catch it was NOT Woodsy until I witnessed it a couple weeks ago...

SO no laying- which I was ok with as they've had multiple sources of stress from that molt forward. Longest story short- probable worms and hadn't been wormed but once prior so tried once with Fenbendazole which we'd used before but things didn't get better and one of the ones I'd been most worried about wouldn't finish her course- could not MAKE her eat that stuff the last day.... SO we also used Valbazen and repeated at Day 10 as directed after they'd also had the stress of finally moving into the new coop/run built just past the end of their old one so same area etc. and had been a slow build they'd been all over during the 6 months- tried to minimize the stress but alas.... We had some SUPER weird stuff go down for girls that were always healthy previously... one by one they'd be stand offish puff up, hunker down and close their eyes- that weird looking ominous look of the whitish looking ?lower eyelid over an open eye vs eyes shut lids- meeting in middle like on roost...
ANYWAY not good... I've learned when they aren't in motion with heads down/tails up exploring and pecking unless sunning, dirt bathing, and chilling then it's not good... tails down no bueno!

SO this lasted only about day each- first one I thought was just dehydrated b/c she was simply unwilling to get herself off the new roost after the move and has since been lowered/changed... but each got better after a day or two pulled aside for some attention by me- dropping water and even nutridrench in some cases- and all got better except for the diarrhea which continued- they had a lot of head 'shaking' or jerking too like they were bothered by pests but none seen... we unfortunately lost our "big" girl who we think had underlying issues from birth as she never really laid or MAY have had an odd egg rarely over her lifetime- the "big" girls are going to be 3 in like 3rd week of may and the little Easter Eggers will be 3 about 6 weeks later. (so "spring chickens" that laid non-stop until their second fall when they finally went thru a full molt...) and when things started to get weird.
They'd had the diarrhea starting in the old coop/run and that's why we tried Fenbenazole and tried Corid but it was from when they were much younger and powdered so after we lost Puffy rather quickly after she became ill looking/acting, we repeated that with a new bottle of 9.6% liquid CORID just out of an abundance of caution! Did ALL waterers for full time frame as directed.

Things for the most part started to get back to normal but then I realized that neither of my olive eggers were laying and looked at them much closer- admittedly I'd never checked their crops before- no idea I was supposed to ;-) but found PeeWee to have sour crop as it was boggy in am before food/water (after 12 hrs) and once I massaged it a few times while pulling her aside in our 'hospital pen' in the barn she made it clear it was sour.... it was as if it "burped' her and I'd suddenly feel it much flatter- and def. doughy- pliable- and DEF smell her sour bad breath... She was having liquid watery poops with occasional green and white tinged pieces in it- sometimes partially formed and sometimes liquid. Followed the suggestions re: witholding food water/etc. and can get into much better details if desired from my notes, but for now- just trying to summarize with as much info as possible. Gave her generic Monistat 2% at 1/2 inch (as it comes out of tube pulled into 1cc syringe) and gave it orally BID for a full 7 days- one morning past...
She had to be put back with the flock before we were done as I was worried she was not going to make it thru a very cold night (into 20's not nl here) and had lost a LOT of weight- prominent keel bone and felt like a pea! She would eat some- but not great- and seemed to forget what her waterer was unless I put it on the floor of pen where she'd mess it up- but was obviously thirsty- would go after a drop of water on dirty rim of bin I was putting it up on... long story- I spent lot of time getting fluids and nutrients into her by dropper and got lots of massages- she seemed to like them and never protested- would close her eyes and actually fall asleep... truly thought I'd lose her a few times but the tough little girl is doing "Ok" with the crew since- have pulled her separate for crop massages and trying various oils when it seemed to almost be too firm ?impacted but is passing poop even though still very much the same but decent amounts...
Have started her yesterday finally on acidified copper sulfate in all waterers available at 1/4tsp per gallon and will be changing out daily... she has been quite interested in it...and had a good appetite for scrambled eggs in am last several days... had to pull her aside though as the bigger gals would run her off and eat it!

OK_ Woodsy I need the soonest help with- sending DH to TSC to get Oxytetracycline 200mg/ml so I can give her something to work faster than something orally!
She went thru all those same things- and then I started to realize she was not running to meet me when out of run foraging...they ALWAYS do no matter whether I have anything in my hands or not ;-) but she seemed to want to but was having trouble- noticed her belly was bigger and lower and making things hard- didn't look short of breath just from that but WILL open beak breath if I have to chase her around to pick her up... even just in the run- the stress has her heart racing and she seems to have shortness of breath..... so I just went worst case scenario in my tunnel vision head with the same thing that Puffy seemed to have- def felt like ascites and I was trying to come to terms with my fav little buddy having something I can't help... then in reading and doing as much due diligence as I could, it hit me that with her dirty butt that I almost forgot out as I skipped her from the bath for caked up butts I did for my two remaining "big girls" Lady and Lily- "Asian Blacks" from TSC as well. Didn't want to stress her as she did NOT want to be held... and had never bathed her before as all EE's had clean fluffy butts always...
So she has had YELLOWISH whitish running poo and that hit me that she could have EYP as I've ALSO been dealing with my Asian Black biggest girl Lady laying soft shelled eggs- has in the past- maybe more than I realized in hindsight- as I thought that the occasionally pecked Lily eggs maybe got broken and that's what they were eating- and has happened- but she had a recent period of having a difficult laying of soft shelled eggs even out in run and one day was trying to do so as she followed as fast as she could back to the run to get fermented food for 'linner' She eats heartily and was trying so hard- but would stop and push and eventually made it to run and laid it there then scarfed... I have been watching her and any time she is having trouble give her calcium mixed up to equal at least an ES tums in approx 1cc liquid by syringe that she happily takes- and since I've never seen her or her sister Lily eat the supplied oyster shell, and both have issues with shell hardness at times- she had two back to back soft shelled eggs (which thankfully I knew to watch for the second one) and the next day she laid a GIGANTIC two yolk egg with a slightly mishappen middle (like a bigger ring around middle) but laid without problem in the egg box where she does usually lay.

SO- reproductive issues are on my mind with a sour crop chick not laying, losing one who had possible tumors or issues from birth we're told, Lily with above issues and now Woodsy who I realized was not laying those green eggs after all and has a big firm belly and above symptoms- her poop has not changed and is just runny yellowish white- trying to pay more attention to see quality/quantity. She seems to hang back with PeeWee in the run with tail slightly down but not really "penguin" like upward stance- she will pick around with tail up and does want to eat but is low many on our pecking order and gets run off and eats after everyone has their fill sometimes- usually have two feeders so this isn't a problem but was feeding ALL of them for PeeWee with crop problem when she came back before all better and so bringing out two bowls of moistened food- did start fermenting it instead again like I used to- but they will literally growl almost and not let her eat- but she's GOOD out of run in yard- she is scratching and pecking with tail up but have also noticed she's either lost several big feathers around her hocks and tail area where I can now see down around her belly and sides OR they're pecking at her- don't see that extent but not watching 24/7...

SOOOO passed out yet?? this is why I have never posted- it's SO much!!
I'm willing to give this girl a shot a survivial if it is indeed EYP or another infection from reproductive issues- but thought EYP due to color of 'poo'...

I need to confirm the dose and route of an SQ injection.
Husband is picking up the "Liquamycin LA-200" or oxytetracycline which I chose not only cause I can get it locally without vet script- but also as it's a "broad spectrum" which will cover E.Coli and several other bugs listed as potential problems in EYP... says it's long acting but not sure completely about length of treatment either- looking at article I had already found on poultryDVM which says 5mg/kg SQ or IM (which it warns can cause muscle irritation or even necrosis depending on dose) every 12-24hrs....

That's quite a range ;-) so I'm trying to get good notes on ALL the various posts but getting overwhelmed with back and forth and would like to confirm- as before finding this I saw in comments for med, that they were told to use 0.2ml/lb as "injection" for chicken per her vet....

I'm a former RN and have had sick kitties who I had to give SQ fluid to often so I'm good IF I know what/and where!! Only just recently gave them their first oral dose of medication with the Valbazen....

Woodsy weighs 6.2 lbs two days ago- can recheck prior to dosing- but I know a lot of that is fluid as her only well chicken like her weighs 4.8 lbs and the sour crop little one now weighs 2.7-2.8lbs... So do I dose off what he normal weight would be (closer to 5lbs or do we factor in the fluid weight?) Yeah- my ICU brain is over thinking this I'm sure...;-) but love this little gal and want everything ready to roll before I put her thru any stress....

btw- also gave her one dose of Meloxicam at 0.5mg/kg as seen in many vet posts on Poultry DVM as well as others for the swelling and resultant discomfort. She tolerated well but didn't repeat yet- was night before last..


WHEW- finally got it all out even if it's hard to follow- I'm sorry if so!!! Have written and given up more than once- all the way back to before we lost Puffy- was awful fyi- as if she had a sudden seizure and got hurt as she flopped around on floor as I lost hold being shocked by it and getting flapped in the face- poor girl... was not the way I want any of them to go....
Hope I answered most of the questions you guys wanted info on- I have LOTS of pics but he'll be here any minute with meds and I've got to get back out there to them as it's warm and PeeWee is still locked up separate from much ealier...want to get them out on a nice afternoon....

 

[azygous]

Whew! Longest post I've faced in my lifetime. I'm not at my sharpest today on top of it, having a chronic health issue today.

I have not had experience with LA200 but did copy a post here a few years back that gives specific advice about it. As for injectible oxytetracycline, I can't advise.

" After talking to a Auburn University Poultry Science professor I have found the TRUE dosage for LA-200 to treat gasping, gurgling, congestion, and other symptoms of CRD. Use .20 CC per pound (5lb chicken = 1CC). Inject into breast approx 1/4 inch deep ONCE. Do not inject another dose until day 3! This is a broad spectrum antibiotic that does not begin to dissipate until day 3. On day one, two, and three rub VetRx onto their combs and nostrils and addone ounce of VetRx to one gallon of their water which has to be "faucet hot" to be able to mix with the water. On day three give another dose of LA-200 according to the dosage above and do not give anymore! On days three thru six use the VetRx as used above both topically and in their water supply. Also during this time, put a heat lamp on them and keep them out of the wind. By day seven you should have healthy chickens. This worked miracles for mine who were deathly sick and lying on their sides wth CRD and I did not lose a single one! Follow these instructions precisely and IT WILL WORK FOR YOU!"

 

[ChknMama50]

Whew! Longest post I've faced in my lifetime. I'm not at my sharpest today on top of it, having a chronic health issue today.

I have not had experience with LA200 but did copy a post here a few years back that gives specific advice about it. As for injectible oxytetracycline, I can't advise.

" After talking to a Auburn University Poultry Science professor I have found the TRUE dosage for LA-200 to treat gasping, gurgling, congestion, and other symptoms of CRD. Use .20 CC per pound (5lb chicken = 1CC). Inject into breast approx 1/4 inch deep ONCE. Do not inject another dose until day 3! This is a broad spectrum antibiotic that does not begin to dissipate until day 3. On day one, two, and three rub VetRx onto their combs and nostrils and addone ounce of VetRx to one gallon of their water which has to be "faucet hot" to be able to mix with the water. On day three give another dose of LA-200 according to the dosage above and do not give anymore! On days three thru six use the VetRx as used above both topically and in their water supply. Also during this time, put a heat lamp on them and keep them out of the wind. By day seven you should have healthy chickens. This worked miracles for mine who were deathly sick and lying on their sides wth CRD and I did not lose a single one! Follow these instructions precisely and IT WILL WORK FOR YOU!"

Yeah- I'm truly sorry to make you read that-not that many will- and probably should have posted as completely separate posts- but feel they all related re: to the stress they have experienced... So keep trying and it keeps ending up like this

Not sure I follow your comment that you can't advise on 'injectable' oxytetracycline but is that not what your included post is advising- at least for CRD treatment? Don't worry about it- I'll reread and it'll make sense I'm sure...

Thank you VEYR much for your detailed help on this drugs usage for CRD- that's the same I found for that- the 0.2cc(ml)/lb and though this is not the problem I'm currently dealing with I'll forever know what to do for this if I ever experience it!!

I'm simply choosing this due to it's broad spectrum coverage and being listed on various postings and an article I read on EYP as one of the antibiotics used by vets for it....
I'll try to somehow break this up and add in pics or something if any of them get worse- mostly I'm down to worrying about the two Easter Eggers- one dealing with resistant sour crop just started on ACS at 1/4tsp/gallon and this chicken who MAY be dealing with EYP- read many, many case studies on various veterinary sites and seems that's best case scenario which still is bad SO will try doing a SQ dosage to see if she shows any improvement... do NOT want to stress her further if it IS really ascites (water belly) but... hate that I didn't consider this and treat right away...

just SO much going on and I too am chronically ill with multiple problems so I will say a prayer for you- sorry to hear you are having a bad day and hate I added to it!!

 

[azygous]

Sorry about the confusion. My health issue affects my cognitive clarity, among other things. Picture how you feel when you're coming down with the flu, the brain fuzz.

I also get confused by products called by a different name when it would benefit everyone if the names were uniform across manufacturers. That's a social disorder I have. It's just sometimes a real circus in my head.

Sorry I wasn't my usual self today. Now I am just going to go lie down.

 

[ChknMama50]

Trying to find info I saw to see if they discuss how often to dose for EYP (or another internal infection .
Your instructions for CRD were great and imply this is a long acting antibiotic but others said 12-24hrs which isn’t any help really!
Having a hard time though as I’ve got my hands full we soaked her in an Epsom salt bath hoping to give her some relief both from what appeared to be some spasms? and it’s hot today. She’s usually SO freaked by any handling but knew she wasn’t feeling so hot- standing off alone and didn’t run

So good news is she’s quite content now and finally has a clean butt again too… had caked on yelliowish white poo that today seems to show more bright green too… going small ants kinda freq…

Anyway need any advice on whether to dose again at 24 hrs and for how long OR wait longer…
FYI though- I ended up giving it SQ back where you’d give SQ fluid at base of her neck in back… tented skin and injected her 1.28ml (did just shy of 1.3) in there- she tolerated great… (had read it can cause discomfort or even tissue necrosis if given IM… ?! Figured safer was better as her whole abd area is swollen and appears tender anyway)…
also gave her a partial dose of Meloxicam as well for pain/swelling… figured some better
than none and she was done

 

[ChknMama50]

Not best photo- I have to pee so bad not thinking straight!! Wiped up then remembered to take photo! Oye.. least I can laugh still…

 

[azygous]

We are fast approaching the June cut-off where over-the-counter animal antibiotics will need a prescription from a vet to purchase. At least that's what the law says.

I have had no real luck getting the on-line animal pharmacies to answer the question - will we still be able to buy fish antibiotics for our chickens without a vet prescription?

I believe the answer is yes, as long as the medication has a disclaimer on the label - "not for human consumption". But I have not been able to verify this from those on-line pharmacies. They do not answer my inquiries. But it appears we are going to still be able to get them without going to a vet for a prescription.

Now, here is another question a lot of people have been asking - is amoxicillin bought with a fish label the same amoxicillin as your doctor would prescribe for you? The answer is yes. Here is the lab study. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2772414X22000111

The take-away from all this falderol is that this law was passed to make it appear the government has done something when very little actually will change. It also proves that politicians aren't qualified to actually hold down a real job like real people.