Great Depression of 2016

[frenchblackcopper]

Arielle,,great points you have,,when this occurs it will be every family for themselves. The voting public has no say in govt anymore.Politicians are controlled by Lobbyists that still control voting in Washington.Although my interest in Poultry is mostly peacocks,they would be useless in a situation for self sustaining.I'm seriously considering to invest more in heritage breeds of chickens that forage more on their own for food for reliable egg laying,such as Australorpes,and possibly some smaller varieties such as Cornish for food.The days of "all you can eat" will be gone when this happens so no need to grow a 12 pound broiler chicken that can only survive eating corn and high protein diets.
We have seen some tough times here the past years,but never to the point of not having a dime to our names.We cut back constantly here where we can.Many things like electrical usage we are doing a much better job of lowering our monthly costs and usage,but everything else keeps going upo in price.It used to be there was a 20% profit margin on items sold in stores,ect,,now the actual prices are marked up hundreds of times the actual cost to make.Is it everybody has to get rich on one sale? My daughter brought home a Fanny Mae chocolates catalogue for her college fundraiser,everything that comes in 1lb quantities costs $24.99. People who decide on the suggested retail price needs to show me how some of the suggested prices arrive at that figure.Another friend of mines brother was interested in opening a pizza franchise here that has many locations locally and is a good pizza place overall,,he was told the average cost for a 16" pizza with everything,salad and breadsticks is $2.95,,on the menu when you order this sized pizza,8 bread sticks,and a mixed salad enough for 4 people,it is sold for $26.99 without tax.Granted we don't have dishes to clean,or time invested in making the pizza,or electricity for the oven for 15 minutes,,but $23.00 markup?? Society today is all about "fast",,and many younger people have no clue on how to cook a 4 course meal,unless of course it has microwave instructions. This group of people surely will have a very difficult time in a worst case scenerio on surviving and self sustaining.

 

[hemet dennis]

I'm going to chip n my 2 cents here. I don't know everything but I have lived a few years.

Quote:
THe pregnancy clause covers spouses. Ileft work to become a stay at home mom, and thru my DH's insurance I was covered.

Insurance is not about the indiviual, it is about the population.

Food for thought. In my state people got emergency health care at the expense of the state when they did not have health insurance. Why is that fair? DH pays for our health insurance AND pays for the person who doesn't. Hospitals here don't turn away people who are in need of care but cannot pay in an emergency. ANd this was BEFORE universal health care in Massachusetts.

Skip the insurance and pay the fine. Let the stupid law collapse under it's own weight.

I think it is unfortunate that the benefits of everyone paying to the health caresystem cannot see the long term value. I understand people are upset by it; Our GOvoner said it took 2 years to get the website working well here at the start up. IMO we should give it a chance. AND . . . . work to get ourselves a whole lot healthier and not need a lot of the medical care that sucks up money unnecessarily.



For example----- eating quality vegetables every day like arugala, alfalfa sprouts and onions and mushrooms, etc are cancer fighting nutreint dense foods.

That type 2 diabetes is preventable and curable by eating a proper diet that severly limits sugars, refined carb foods and junk food. How many of you are aware that the same Standard AMerican diet also causes: strokes, heart attackes, gout, RA, aarthroschlerosis, and many more degenerative diseases?

Toothe decay is far less on a meat and veg diet than thediet of foods we love to eat.

As I read thru this thread, I read a lot of bitching, but no suggestions on what each of us can do to change the situation to help ourselves and our family members.

Get learning how to grow food and teach your family and neighbors. Learn to can and freeze foods. ( My lanb is still edible 10 yrs in the freezer-- tossed some for freezer burn tothe chooks.) Look at how you will feed your animals-- that is expensive. Consider raising meat rabbits, or ducks as well as chickens. But only raise what you can afford to feed. Add more vegies to your diet and eat 2 salads every day when the garden is prosperous.

A lot of land is not necessary to accomplish these goals. Lots of gardening in small space info on line.

Keep healthy: exercise regularly like walking for 30-60 minutes everyday. REv up the body to better utilize the foods we feed it. We were not meant to be sedintary.

THere are countries around the world that are in worse condition that we are. Oddly the world economy runs off the american dollar. That is a huge resposiblity on the shoulders of a few men in our governemnt.

INvest in yourself: education, health, friendships. Keep a good guard dog. FOrget the cats, get a chicken to eat the mice. lol

Your discussion is very thought pervoking. THe US cannot stay as the world leader forever-- no country has ever done that. Many countries have passed their heyday and are still wonderful places to live.

WE need to quit the war in Afghanistan---- these last 10+ years ( so many years that I canot remember the beginning date anymore) have eaten a huge amount of our money. I'm betting that money would have covered a good percentage of our debts.

We need jobs here in this country to put all people to work. Several businesses have chosen to do just that. As the wages rise in CHina, keeping the manufacturin here is often a better choice for a company. More of the manufacturing needds to come here. I do not support giving out free money , better to have low paying jobs and the dignity of a good days work. THis has disappeared. Stop the handouts and see how many are then willing to work. We cannot keep going the way we are now. People need to give back to the community for every dollar they get. ANd get tubes tied for both men and women once they have 2 kids and are on assistance. When they are off assitance and are making a good wage/income, then they can pay to have a reversal.

So while there is a bit of ranting on these 4+ pages, do consider how you can make yourr comminuty a better community. NOt just complain, but change.

So everyone pays for pregnancy insurance so the ones that need it will pay less. Then should everyone pay car insurance even if they don't have a car ? You were covered under his insurance because him or his employer paid for it. Why do you want me to pay for it also ?

"Food for thought. In my state people got emergency health care at the expense of the state when they did not have health insurance. Why is that fair?"
No it's not "fair" it's the humanitarian thing to do, should we refuse treatment to injured and sick people ?

"
For example----- eating quality vegetables every day like arugala, alfalfa sprouts and onions and mushrooms, etc are cancer fighting nutreint dense foods.

That type 2 diabetes is preventable and curable by eating a proper diet that severly limits sugars, refined carb foods and junk food. How many of you are aware that the same Standard AMerican diet also causes: strokes, heart attackes, gout, RA, aarthroschlerosis, and many more degenerative diseases?

Toothe decay is far less on a meat and veg diet than thediet of foods we love to eat."

So should the government mandate what we eat for the good of the "population". Will they mandate how much exercise we do each day ? Should they ban any foods that are not good for us ?

How many rabbits should a family living in a 2 bedroom apartment be raising ? How much of their own food should they grow ?

 

[Arielle]

Quote: THe pregnancy clause covers spouses. Ileft work to become a stay at home mom, and thru my DH's insurance I was covered.

Insurance is not about the indiviual, it is about the population.

Food for thought. In my state people got emergency health care at the expense of the state when they did not have health insurance. Why is that fair? DH pays for our health insurance AND pays for the person who doesn't. Hospitals here don't turn away people who are in need of care but cannot pay in an emergency. ANd this was BEFORE universal health care in Massachusetts.

Skip the insurance and pay the fine. Let the stupid law collapse under it's own weight.

I think it is unfortunate that the benefits of everyone paying to the health caresystem cannot see the long term value. I understand people are upset by it; Our GOvoner said it took 2 years to get the website working well here at the start up. IMO we should give it a chance. AND . . . . work to get ourselves a whole lot healthier and not need a lot of the medical care that sucks up money unnecessarily.



For example----- eating quality vegetables every day like arugala, alfalfa sprouts and onions and mushrooms, etc are cancer fighting nutreint dense foods.

That type 2 diabetes is preventable and curable by eating a proper diet that severly limits sugars, refined carb foods and junk food. How many of you are aware that the same Standard AMerican diet also causes: strokes, heart attackes, gout, RA, aarthroschlerosis, and many more degenerative diseases?

Toothe decay is far less on a meat and veg diet than thediet of foods we love to eat.

As I read thru this thread, I read a lot of bitching, but no suggestions on what each of us can do to change the situation to help ourselves and our family members.

Get learning how to grow food and teach your family and neighbors. Learn to can and freeze foods. ( My lanb is still edible 10 yrs in the freezer-- tossed some for freezer burn tothe chooks.) Look at how you will feed your animals-- that is expensive. Consider raising meat rabbits, or ducks as well as chickens. But only raise what you can afford to feed. Add more vegies to your diet and eat 2 salads every day when the garden is prosperous.

A lot of land is not necessary to accomplish these goals. Lots of gardening in small space info on line.

Keep healthy: exercise regularly like walking for 30-60 minutes everyday. REv up the body to better utilize the foods we feed it. We were not meant to be sedintary.

THere are countries around the world that are in worse condition that we are. Oddly the world economy runs off the american dollar. That is a huge resposiblity on the shoulders of a few men in our governemnt.

INvest in yourself: education, health, friendships. Keep a good guard dog. FOrget the cats, get a chicken to eat the mice. lol

Your discussion is very thought pervoking. THe US cannot stay as the world leader forever-- no country has ever done that. Many countries have passed their heyday and are still wonderful places to live.

WE need to quit the war in Afghanistan---- these last 10+ years ( so many years that I canot remember the beginning date anymore) have eaten a huge amount of our money. I'm betting that money would have covered a good percentage of our debts.

We need jobs here in this country to put all people to work. Several businesses have chosen to do just that. As the wages rise in CHina, keeping the manufacturin here is often a better choice for a company. More of the manufacturing needds to come here. I do not support giving out free money , better to have low paying jobs and the dignity of a good days work. THis has disappeared. Stop the handouts and see how many are then willing to work. We cannot keep going the way we are now. People need to give back to the community for every dollar they get. ANd get tubes tied for both men and women once they have 2 kids and are on assistance. When they are off assitance and are making a good wage/income, then they can pay to have a reversal.

So while there is a bit of ranting on these 4+ pages, do consider how you can make yourr comminuty a better community. NOt just complain, but change.

So everyone pays for pregnancy insurance so the ones that need it will pay less. Then should everyone pay car insurance even if they don't have a car ? You were covered under his insurance because him or his employer paid for it. Why do you want me to pay for it also ?

"Food for thought. In my state people got emergency health care at the expense of the state when they did not have health insurance. Why is that fair?"
No it's not "fair" it's the humanitarian thing to do, should we refuse treatment to injured and sick people ?

"
For example----- eating quality vegetables every day like arugala, alfalfa sprouts and onions and mushrooms, etc are cancer fighting nutreint dense foods.

That type 2 diabetes is preventable and curable by eating a proper diet that severly limits sugars, refined carb foods and junk food. How many of you are aware that the same Standard AMerican diet also causes: strokes, heart attackes, gout, RA, aarthroschlerosis, and many more degenerative diseases?

Toothe decay is far less on a meat and veg diet than thediet of foods we love to eat."

So should the government mandate what we eat for the good of the "population". Will they mandate how much exercise we do each day ? Should they ban any foods that are not good for us ?

How many rabbits should a family living in a 2 bedroom apartment be raising ? How much of their own food should they grow ?
When we all chip in the overall cost is more affordable to everyone. I have yet to know of anyone that doesn't use health services at sometime in their life. Life flight helicoptes are very expnsive; heck, just an ambulence ride is crazy expensive, but then the cost of running the service for our community is crazy expensive.

Health care is a universal need; just like education is provided for all in the US. WOuld you like to give back your education because that was paid for by tax dollars.? Education and health care are viewed by most people as the greatest contributors to overall well being of the members of our society.

If I could ask the government to dictate food, it would be to elimate all the snack foods in the middle aisles of the gorcery stores. IT will never happen because of the power ofthe lobbiest. Heck, it is the grass roots efforts that is making the information known that the government support of the stupid food pyramid is way off base. I made the choice of dumping most of the high grain foods in favor of more fruits and vegetbles-- and my pediatrition of mid-East decent totally supported this goal. I see all the crappy food full of sugar and white flour provided as free and reduced breakfasts to the poor of my town at school courtesy of the federal government. ANd lunch is only marginally better. My kids pack a bagged lunch everyday. School lunch is cheaper to buy BUT the cost in poorer health is a BIGGER cost.

In the area I live I am already dictate to as to the number of animals I can have. GOvernement already decides that for millions of people living in some cities chickens cannot live withing the sity limits. OTher cities have taken a different point of view.

IN my state all cars on the road must be insured for damage to anothers property. All cars. In the state next to me, RI, insurance is optional. Those that have an accident without insurance walk away without paying for the damage even if they are at fault in too many instances.

Please understand I am not for bigger government-- I would actually like to see a significant cut back. HOwever what I see is more and more people wanting the free and the give me attitude.

As for the insurance that covers pregnancy-- you better hope that no one in your immediate family gets pregnant. THe costs of the endless testing and perhaps treatment is very expensive. YOu have no idea how woman are treated apparently. WOnce we are pregnant we becomepublic property and have fewer rights to decide about our own bodies. Mothers are the most critized group. I am judged for everything I do and don't do as others deem important regarding the health of my born and unborn babies. SO yes, please pay into the insurance system to help cover the women that need health care during their pregnancy and to help keep appointments and testing and treatment affordable. I decided to be the best mom I could by quitting my job and focusing on raising well behaived children that will contribute to positively to our society. Having healthy babies is less of a stress on our society. Having healthy children is less of a stres on our society. ANd it all starts with prenatal care BEFORE a woman becomes pregnant. Can anyone look up the death rates of pregnant women?? It is far higher than non-pregnant woman.

If you aren't willing to pay into the health care system to support healthy pregancies and children, are you willing to be sterilized ? I ask in all sincereity--- I know of one friend that almost died giving birth to her second child. Where does that leave her first child-- without a mother and guide thru childhood?

Health insurance isn't for the individual it is for our population as a whole. IT works like taxes--A friend in rural Maine pays far more in property tax than I do in Massachusetts. OVerall my town has far more money to work with because of the density of the housing. OVerall my town has far more services from painting 4 lines on the roads to regular plowing and salting of the roads in winter for example. I remember in Hancock country in Maine the roads wer not plowed all winter, and we drove on packed an rutted snow. THere was no money for plowing.

Overall I would like to see less regulation in many areas as I do think this is stiffling growth-- but we need to somehow balance this with safety. I know what went into building my house-- the number of permits, and safety inspections thru the whole process. I was grateful for the inspector we had as he caught a few important areas that we had forgotten. IN the end he said this was one of th best built houses he had ever seen. We built the house, not a contractor. We cared about the details. NOt the bottom dollar. BUt if you have money as the drive, who is looking out for the future buyers? THat is the purpose of the expensive inspection system. Of course there are faults in the system . . . but I'll leave that for another day . . .

So again, I will challenge you all to think about what can you do in your own communites to prepare for the worst to come. Plan now what you can grow in the spring and get seeds over the winter if you are in the far north; and if in the south , look at what you can plant NOW-- lots of winter hardy vegies to start now. How can you help a neighbor start a garden. Good neighbors keep you safer. Reach out and get to know your neighbors. I'm not saying you need to trust your neighbors, but to know your neighbors. Create communities again.

Our country is morphing, and likely on the decline as it has not seen great economic growth for decades, but that is not the end, it is a new beginning.

I think of the native americans that lived off the land, with out pay to provide for their families. Is this a clue to our future?

 

[frenchblackcopper]

I just seen across the newscreen on tv this morning that the Govt is giving Boeing a $90 BILLION $ tax break,,,so they can be competitive in the market and speed the making of the 787 Dreamliner,,
I havn't endured any medical issues,and only have health insurance when I work 250 hours per quarter thru my Union,and it's Blue Cross insurance.I feel when over 20% of my paycheck is taken out for taxes,and then I see people at Wal-Mart perfectly capable of working,using a EBT card to pay for the mountain of candy in their cart,really gets me steamed. Our state too has insurance laws for automobile owners,but Country Companies still charges me for the "uninsured driver",,people must show proof of insurance at the time they get their yearly plate or sticker,,insurance can be paid by quaters,so they buy it when they need to get new plates,then drop it when the next quarterly premium comes due.
Arielle,,I value your opinions and thoughts. But since when does it become MY responsibilty to support everyone else? The working class in this country,pays for the non working class,and that number is growing,and growing.I see plenty of unwed mothers that purposely have kids,to gain more public benefits.the statistics on one parent children is alarming when it comes to eventual value to society,,they too become liabilities for taxpayers.And yes,it may be cruel,but some people should not be allowed to reproduce,,call it select breeding,but the crackheads,gang bangers,non working class with no education do nothing more than cost everyone,while they steal-rob,and sell and promote drugs to get money. Society as a whole needs corrected.Being healthy and responsible and capable of working makes it so easy to not see down the tunnel.
Our daughter is going to college to become a genetic counselor,and what she has shown us they can now trace back to genetics as far as behavior alone is astounding.IQ is another direct genetic passed on trait. People-children who cannot easily learn become school dropouts,then blame society for issues later in life,and of course we the taxpayers pay for subsidized housing,food stamps,and welfare for them until they die.This in my opinion,is NOT my responsibilty.

 

[newfoundland]

Arielle you have hit the nail on the head. Universal healthcare benefits the greater society and this is what any government must consider first and foremost. It is both impractical and silly to say why should everyone pay for example maternity services, since not everyone will make use of them. Not everyone will make use of cancer treatment, mercifully, but no one would begrudge paying towards the cost of these.

frenchblackcopper, it seems to me that I have heard the rhetoric before regarding selective breeding of the human population, in Nazi Germany in the 1930s. I don't think anyone wants to go there again!

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

You can talk about the greater good all you want but the fact is that almost everyone I know has lost their health coverage that they have had for years cause the only thing they can afford is to pay the penalty.

People can not afford 12K for what they got for 2K last year.

All the doctors I have talked to said they are retiring or changing jobs.

 

[Arielle]

If you re-read my first response on this thread you will see that I am not supportive of endless welfare help. Not at all. If you have two kids and want support, get fixed. ( Like that will happen). I want to see jobs comeback even if minumum wage grunt jobs and get rid of welfare entirely. Years ago as I remember bits and pieces ( I wasn't there) the govement funded work projects: people worked to get money. Here in Mass EBT cards have had many items removed from the what they can buy list. Wish I could remember the list. THis is in the right direction. IMO if a person gets EBT they need to contribute back to society but with a lot of thought, this had it challenges. We you put a real situation to a card holder, solutions are not so easy. I have a friend that lost her husband and I'm pretty sure uses EBT, but she goes to church, works hard to get her kids extra help in school, and struggles to keep her family together. ANother woman used EBT when she left the work force to go back to school to become a nurse and then her DH lost his job. She made good use of the EBT allowing her toget a nursing degree and a better future for her family. ANother man is homeless because he cannot get residency, to get into a home situation , he needs a mailing address. TO get a pobox he needs a physical address. He is one of the kindest people I have ever met: well read, kind to my children, great stories of the hard life of farming. He would like to have a place to live and a job. All the rules work against him.

In Europe women get paid maternity leave for a year in many countries. NOT in the US. Yet this is he hardest job there is an the children we raise are the future of our country.

I would like to see a limit to the amount of money a person can get on welfare. BUT we need jobs for these people. I'm not at all for the mini,mum wage being a living wage; this should be the first rung up the ladder. We need jobs for everyone and that means business need to be growing and then hiring people, that are growing and hiring people. ANd the hired people are spending their money, so the businesses can grow. ANd more people are hired, and will have money to spend.

It is all a shell game!!!! BUt a very important one. It is about beleiving the future will be good . WHen people feel this way they spend their money rather than hord it. HOrding slows down the economy. Not sure I am making my point here. IT a simple economic model but everyone overlooks it. INvesting money to get a company growing is a good thing. It means hiring and money for working families.

My state is in the process of decideing where 2 casino licenses will be used: which towns will vote to allow a casino facility. I am hoping one will be in an ajacent town, because it will mean jobs for this area. THe mills are long gone but the people are still here with no jobs. I'm not in favor of the local tribes having the casino because all the money goes into the t ribe and they do not give any to the state.

Our local school have cut back so far that they have not been able to improve the curriculum and the results are not only measured in the poor scores of the state test but their are limited jobs for those not in the medical sector and the support jobs. THis means the more people that are sick the mroe profitable the medical supply companies are. BUt it is the income taxes that fund the schools, at the town level and the state level. Only the families with double incomes can afford to put their kids into private schools. BUt that means having TWO jobs. Many people moved their kids from private to public when the economy tanked putting a sudden burden on the public schools.

We need to create jobs to get this economy going and that will mean the small buisinesses, the local businesses, those same businesses that compete with the big businesses with lobbiests.

We are all connected and drive the system. Make your actions count. We are most effected by local action . . . . I do know that my vote has an impact in my town and my state . . . . at the federal level NOT. Reach out and help some one in need . . . you might be the factor that helps someone get a job and get off the EBT system. Get a community garden going!! Teach someone how to raise a few pullets for eggs. Get involved with 4H or the BOy Scouts or any number of organizations that lift up their communities. Grow tomato plants and hand them out .. . . . .

 

[mom'sfolly]

Whew...where to start.

ETB/SNAP is limited. Just because you can't see a disability, doesn't mean it isn't there. Most people who qualify for SNAP are working. People working full-time minimum wage jobs still qualify for SNAP.

If only some people are allowed to have kids, who gets to decide? The government that everyone seems to hate? What are the criteria? Education? Well that is largely due to circumstances, do we punish those who are too more to move to a better school district or who need to leave school early to support their family? Religion? Okay, which one? Are atheists allowed to have children? Health? What about people with diabetes? Or people with bad eyesight? Income? Can only the wealthy have children? Do you earn child credit by public service? What public service counts?

If you really want to regulate who has children...you order mandatory sterilization for every male at sexual maturity. They are allowed to donate sperm before the surgery is done. Then, they can reproduce only when allowed, under whatever rules are established. This eliminates so such discussion: birth control and pregnancy coverage by insurance, unplanned pregnancy, single parent families, kids in foster care, abortion, etc all become moot. Practical, affordable and easy. Yet no one seems to be advocating for a society that works this way.

 

[Arielle]

You can talk about the greater good all you want but the fact is that almost everyone I know has lost their health coverage that they have had for years cause the only thing they can afford is to pay the penalty.

People can not afford 12K for what they got for 2K last year.

All the doctors I have talked to said they are retiring or changing jobs.

2k was a good price-- far less than what DH has been paying for years.

THere are two ways to get this down: we all pay into it, then we all stay as healthy as possible and take an ACTIVE roll in our own health.

WHo here reading this still smokes???? My son's best friends father had a heart attack in his mid 30's. In the month after his return home, he started smoking again. If I didn't care for him so much as a family friend, I would have slapped him up the side of the head. He had a chance to stop smoking.

I got my heads up and changed my diet BEFORE having a heart attack.

WHat have YOU done to improve your health and prevent the majority of diseases that plqgue our nation from a glutonous life style?

THis is not retoric. Do what you can do to have a healthier life.

I cannot speak to the numbers Rebel, $24K is too much if those numbers are correct. If it was me, I would rerun those numbers.

 

[hemet dennis]

I just seen across the newscreen on tv this morning that the Govt is giving Boeing a $90 BILLION $ tax break,,,so they can be competitive in the market and speed the making of the 787 Dreamliner,,
I havn't endured any medical issues,and only have health insurance when I work 250 hours per quarter thru my Union,and it's Blue Cross insurance.I feel when over 20% of my paycheck is taken out for taxes,and then I see people at Wal-Mart perfectly capable of working,using a EBT card to pay for the mountain of candy in their cart,really gets me steamed. Our state too has insurance laws for automobile owners,but Country Companies still charges me for the "uninsured driver",,people must show proof of insurance at the time they get their yearly plate or sticker,,insurance can be paid by quaters,so they buy it when they need to get new plates,then drop it when the next quarterly premium comes due.
Arielle,,I value your opinions and thoughts. But since when does it become MY responsibilty to support everyone else? The working class in this country,pays for the non working class,and that number is growing,and growing.I see plenty of unwed mothers that purposely have kids,to gain more public benefits.the statistics on one parent children is alarming when it comes to eventual value to society,,they too become liabilities for taxpayers.And yes,it may be cruel,but some people should not be allowed to reproduce,,call it select breeding,but the crackheads,gang bangers,non working class with no education do nothing more than cost everyone,while they steal-rob,and sell and promote drugs to get money. Society as a whole needs corrected.Being healthy and responsible and capable of working makes it so easy to not see down the tunnel.
Our daughter is going to college to become a genetic counselor,and what she has shown us they can now trace back to genetics as far as behavior alone is astounding.IQ is another direct genetic passed on trait. People-children who cannot easily learn become school dropouts,then blame society for issues later in life,and of course we the taxpayers pay for subsidized housing,food stamps,and welfare for them until they die.This in my opinion,is NOT my responsibilty.

You meant to say $9 billion and that's over 30 years, and that's from the state government. Now how much will the state still collect over the next 30 years for Boeing staying there ?