how many breeding and generations before you can say your chickns are heritage?

[kellyn]

hello~ this is just a simple question I have about breeding my chickens. Most of my chickens were from hatcherys except for just a few. Mainly Ideal Poultry Breeding Farms.

Yesterday I bought 13 heritage bred chickens, 8 RIRs and 4 delawares (all 13 are chicks) as well as an adult buff cochin rooster.

I'd like to breed heritage chickens, but I don't wanna sell all my 60+ hens to do it. I'm attached to them. Sooo, i'd like to breed them and through several generations say I have heritage chickens.

I would also love to know the APA standard for Rhode Island Reds, Americaunas, Delawares, and Barred Rocks and Buff cochins.

I know a lot about chickens, but next to nothing on breeding... so if anyone knows anything, i'd love to know!

Please excuse my mistakes in writing... I'll try and fix them later.it's kinda hard to wrie on a cell phone in a moving vehicle.

 

[Blaineiac]

People seem to be changing the definition of "Heritage" to make it fit their flock, since it is the "IN" thing to say about your chickens. I say call them what you want. The term heritage is so over used that it doesn't make much of a difference anyway. Blaine

 

[tadkerson]

Heritage can refer to the inheritance of characteristics from generation to generation. A heritage breed is purebred and will pass on the same characteristics to its offspring.

Heritage can also refer to a breed that has a tradition. In the USA, there were a number of breeds that were, over a number of years, popular in the past. Any of these birds would be considered a heritage breed.

Lets take for example the rhode Island red- it is a popular heritage breed and has been bred and used as a dual purpose breed for many years.

If you have a rhode island red male and cross it with a rhode island red female- the cross should produce rhode island red F1 offspring. You then take the F1 offspring (siblings) and cross them- if there are any genes that do not belong in a rhode island red; they will show up in the F2 offspring from the sibling cross. If all of the F2 offspring only have characteristics of a rhode island red, then by definition they are a heritage breed.

Some people may get upset about what I have posted. It does not require that a bird comes from a closed flock that has been inbred for years and years. That scenario would preclude almost all the birds that are owned by individuals.

The test for if a bird is a heritage breed would be 1. was the breed utilized over a period of time in the past. 2. do the birds the person owns breed true by the third generation. If the birds breed true and were a breed that was utilized over time in the past- it is a heritage breed.


Another point- a bird does not have to meet the Standard of Perfection to be a heritage breed. If that were so, then there would be very few heritage birds because none actually meet the standard of perfection because very few birds are perfect.

Here is one of my rhode island red that I had in the past. He looks like a rhode island red to me and bred true. The original parents were hatchery stock. Everybody can make up their own minds about the heritage concept. I think he was quit handsome and yes I do see the damage to his comb. Something has got to give when it gets 10 below zero.

Tim

 

[tadkerson]

You can purchase heritage breeds at a hatchery( at least according to the conservancy) . See the following link.

http://albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/producers.html

I think that the heritage label is just another way a person can say my chicken is better than your chicken. People like to take advantage of labels so they can sell their stock at a higher price. It usually boils down to a bunch of !@#$%^^.

I do think the SOP serves a valuable purpose for defining a breed. The only problem I see with the SOP is that it is subjective- the judge makes a decision based upon her/his judgment. I have been to too many competitions where the judges make a call based upon their judgment. Judgment is subjective and varies with the judge. In the SOP, the judge bases his/her judgment upon their interpretation of a word. Take for example the word broad that is in many descriptions of the body types of chickens. What does broad mean? There is no fixed objective measurement to determine if the bird is broad or not. It can not be measured objectively because there is no measurement given in the standard. The judge determines if it is broad or something close to broad. The judge then deducts points for the judgment. The only thing that makes a bird not a breed is a serious disqualification, for example, wrong leg color.

From what I can gather from the two previous posts, the male in the picture of my first post is not a Rhode Island Red. Is their a difference in a heritage rhode island red and a rhode island red?
If my bird was not a rhode island red, then what is it- a hybrid of some kind?

The great grand parents of the bird in the picture were purchased from Cackle Hatchery which happens to be on the conservancy list.

Tim

 

[buffalogal]

Please excuse my mistakes in writing... I'll try and fix them later.it's kinda hard to wrie on a cell phone in a moving vehicle.

Just as long as you aren't driving that moving vehicle...

 

[Matt1616]

In my opinion, never if you cross a heritage line with a hatchery line. Hatchery lines are known to be crossed and mixed, they aren't really considered "pure bred". If you want Heritage Chickens I would suggest you only breed pure bred heritage lines. This is just my opinion....

 

[cubalaya]

it would take 8 generations to get back to pure or heritage if you add something in.

 

[Fred's Hens]

If you start out with hatchery stock, it will take a loooooooooooong time to breed them up. It is far faster and surer to begin with high quality stock in the first place. Even then, you'll likely be culling heavily. If you put good birds in with what you have, the bad traits of the hatchery blood lines will continue to pop up, pull down and pollute the features of the heritage, truer birds. Very tough row to hoe.

To be clear, we're not talking about showing birds, per se, just the difference in a heritage, pure RIR is soooo far from the hatchery reds, and just look at KathyinMo's or Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch Barred Rocks and compare them the hatchery birds passing as BRs. Such an extreme difference.

 

[Fred's Hens]

For what it is worth, here is the American Livestock Breeds Conservatory's definition. Folks, I'd have no idea whether THIS ALBC definition is the only one employed to determine heritage breeds, nor do I have any idea whether this definition is the most authoritative. But, here it is. At least it is a starting point for dialog.

http://albc-usa.org/heritagechicken/definition.html

 

[Fred's Hens]

Definition:

Heritage Chicken must adhere to all the following:​

1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.
2. Naturally mating. Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan. Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.
4. Slow growth rate. Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass.​

Chickens marketed as Heritage must include the variety and breed name on the label.

Terms like “heirloom,” “antique,” “old-fashioned,” and “old timey” imply Heritage and are understood to be synonymous with the definition provided here.​

Abbreviated Definition: A Heritage Egg can only be produced by an American Poultry Association Standard breed. A Heritage Chicken is hatched from a heritage egg sired by an American Poultry Association Standard breed established prior to the mid-20th century, is slow growing, naturally mated with a long productive outdoor life.​

The American Livestock Breeds Conservancy has over 30 years of experience, knowledge, and understanding of endangered breeds, genetic conservation, and breeder networks.​

Endorsed by the following individuals:
Frank Reese, Reese Turkeys, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch, Standard Bred Poultry Institute, and American Poultry Association;
Marjorie Bender, Research & Technical Program Director, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy
D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, PhD., Technical Advisor, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, and Professor, Veterinary Pathology and Genetics, Virginia Tech;
Don Bixby, DVM. Independent Consultant, former Executive Director for the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy;
R. Scott Beyer, PhD, Associate Professor, Poultry Nutrition Management, Kansas State University,
Danny Williamson, Windmill Farm, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch, and American Poultry Association;
Anne Fanatico, PhD, Research Associate, Center for Excellence for Poultry Science, University of Arkansas;
Kenneth E. Anderson, Professor, Poultry Extension Specialist, North Carolina State University.​

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