How/where does the blue gene first enter the picture?

[SusanJoM]

I don't know quite how to ask this question, but it came up in my thinking about a local offering of Black Copper Marans eggs which the offerer suggested might produce some Blue and/or Splash offspring. Isn't a visually black bird that is carrying the blue gene really the Easter Egger of the Marans world? Does it have a name? Is it really a Blue Copper Marans? or do only visually Blues get to be called Blue Copper Marans.

And then to my first question: when/how does that blue gene first show up. Is it a fluke?

My question is poorly writ and I'm having trouble with the language here, but I'm hoping someone who understands what I'm saying badly can help me work my way towards a question that can be answered....

Thanks

 

[draye]

There are Black and Blue Copper Marans.
I don't know (understand) exactly how black is converted to blue.
So, to answer your question Blue Copper would be visually Blue Copper.
The only way though for a Black Copper to produce a Blue Copper or Splash would be for them to be bred to one that carries those colors. Splash is a Blue chicken that carries 2 copies of the blue gene.

 

[SusanJoM]

Quote:
And that's my big question: is it a defect in the black gene or an occasional mutation? Hmmm....
Someone is gonna tell me and I'm gonna smack my forehead and say "well, duh....."

 

[CaptGus]

I cant offer much help either but I do have a scenario. I just bred a black copper maran rooster to my white rock hens, this morning looks like the hatch has started, guess what, some of the chicks are blue. I will get a picture up in a little while to show you.

 

[Kev]

Susan, that local offering was simply poorly worded.

They mean they have black copper AND blue copper breeder birds. They probably have something like a blue copper roo with mostly black copper hens, and at least one blue copper hen. This grouping would hatch out half black coppers and half blue coppers and possibly a few splashes(from the blue roo and blue hen).

Most mutations come about very very rarely. I don't know the history on the blue gene, how old it is, if it happened only once- meaning all blue birds are descended from a single mutation event many years agp(this is very possible) or if blue mutation happened more than once- won't be possible to know until the gene is sequenced out and compared to those from other blues.

I forget how exactly blue works, it either has to do with altering the shape of pigments in the feathers and/or reducing the amount of black pigments put into the feather.

CaptGus, if those chicks do turn out blue, it is because the whites had blue in them all along, not a new mutation event. Blue is sometimes added to white lines to help with crisper, cleaner white. Mottle, barring, silver are other common genes added to whites for this reason also.

 

[SusanJoM]

Thanks Kev, and darn if I didn't remember that I had just read something here
http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/gms4-incomplete-dominance-of-blue-feathering/

that blue is due to a gene which inhibits the expression of the black...

Susan

 

[draye]

See I partially knew the answer. Sometimes when someone puts something half way right others will jump in there and give you the answer the way you want it. I'm just now beginning to understand some of this genetics stuff myself.