Whiting True Blue Breeding - What to look for?

[NatJ]

It's rather doubtful that Ameracuana were involved, due to a complete absence of dominant traits like beard & muffs.

https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/whiting_true_blue.html
McMurray's own page has a photo of a blue pullet with muff/beard. It's the first photo I see when I load the page.

And I think I see puffy cheeks on some of the young chicks in another photo, although I'm less certain about that.

The text description does not say anything about whether they are supposed to have muff/beard or not, and neither does the list of "quick stats."

Do a search for "Minorca" and you will get some results with White Faced Black Spanish. It happens with all the breeds.
It's really dependent on the person to label things.

It doesn't change the breed or variety characteristics. But it does make things confusing sometimes.

Yes, that happens when doing google searches.

But I expect the hatchery selling the birds to get their own photos right.

 

[SourRoses]

But I expect the hatchery selling the birds to get their own photos right.

Agreed! You'd think it would matter to them. But they don't take Ameraucana seriously either.
There was an old thread on BYC where people were quite dogmatic that they shouldn't have a beard & muffs "or else they're just EEs"

They also have this rooster in the listing:

It seems like the hatcheries are solidly stuck on the idea that blue eggs are the only reason to get blue egg laying chickens :/

And TBH, I'm still not sure I get the idea behind WTB. Blue eggs but more of them - well Ameraucana already lay pretty well, why not strive to improve them and keep a uniform appearance? Of course, I'll be working on that with our Ameraucana, but I'm just not sure why Whiting wanted to half do a job...

 

[3KillerBs]

And TBH, I'm still not sure I get the idea behind WTB. Blue eggs but more of them - well Ameraucana already lay pretty well, why not strive to improve them and keep a uniform appearance? Of course, I'll be working on that with our Ameraucana, but I'm just not sure why Whiting wanted to half do a job...

What I've learned is that the intent of the WTB was,

A. BLUE eggs -- the bluest they could get.
B. LARGE eggs -- as in US size large.
C. HIGH PRODUCTION of eggs.

So, to the best of my understanding, they're intended to be a viable commercial producer of blue eggs for sale in the US mass market, laying up to 300 large eggs per year.

Don't Ameraucana's lay medium?

 

[NatJ]

Agreed! You'd think it would matter to them. But they don't take Ameraucana seriously either.
There was an old thread on BYC where people were quite dogmatic that they shouldn't have a beard & muffs "or else they're just EEs"

They also have this rooster in the listing:

View attachment 3443733

I take that to mean that McMurray doesn't care whether their Whiting True Blues have muff/beard or not, since they feature photos of birds with and birds without.

And TBH, I'm still not sure I get the idea behind WTB. Blue eggs but more of them - well Ameraucana already lay pretty well, why not strive to improve them and keep a uniform appearance?

I though Ameraucanas were supposed to be a dual-purpose type chicken, while the Whiting True Blues appear to have more of a Leghorn type.

We have so many breeds that lay brown eggs, and so many that lay white eggs, I think there is room for quite a few that lay blue eggs as well. Personally, I'd like to see a breed with just normal chicken traits that lays blue eggs. No muff/beard, no ear tufts, no missing tail, no crested head, etc.

 

[SourRoses]

What I've learned is that the intent of the WTB was,

A. BLUE eggs -- the bluest they could get.
B. LARGE eggs -- as in US size large.
C. HIGH PRODUCTION of eggs.

So, to the best of my understanding, they're intended to be a viable commercial producer of blue eggs for sale in the US mass market, laying up to 300 large eggs per year.

Don't Ameraucana's lay medium?

My Ameraucana lay large. I'm going to get one of those egg scales soon and I'll post a pic to make sure I'm not misjudging them.

And, well, you can't get bluer than 2 copies of the blue egg gene and free of any tan tint.
Sometimes breeders / proponents of Ameraucana, Cream Legbar, and WTB make a big deal about how blue their eggs are as if it's better, but fully blue is fully blue.
Sometimes individual eggs can be a bit deeper in color, especially when they've just started up lay again, and you know people just have to take pictures in perfect lighting and use that as their example.

So, McMurray says the WTB are not supposed to go broody... that would explain some of the increased production. And they say egg size is medium to large.

 

[SourRoses]

I though Ameraucanas were supposed to be a dual-purpose type chicken, while the Whiting True Blues appear to have more of a Leghorn type.

We have so many breeds that lay brown eggs, and so many that lay white eggs, I think there is room for quite a few that lay blue eggs as well. Personally, I'd like to see a breed with just normal chicken traits that lays blue eggs. No muff/beard, no ear tufts, no missing tail, no crested head, etc.

I never thought of them that way... breeders don't seem to focus on carcass size at all. But I really could have missed it.
I understand wanting something normal looking that lays blue. Or at least I think I do... I'm going to be spending the next __ years making something crazy that lays blue. lol

 

[3KillerBs]

My Ameraucana lay large. I'm going to get one of those egg scales soon and I'll post a pic to make sure I'm not misjudging them.

And, well, you can't get bluer than 2 copies of the blue egg gene and free of any tan tint.
Sometimes breeders / proponents of Ameraucana, Cream Legbar, and WTB make a big deal about how blue their eggs are as if it's better, but fully blue is fully blue.
Sometimes individual eggs can be a bit deeper in color, especially when they've just started up lay again, and you know people just have to take pictures in perfect lighting and use that as their example.

So, McMurray says the WTB are not supposed to go broody... that would explain some of the increased production. And they say egg size is medium to large.

I weigh my eggs on my regular digital kitchen scale set to grams. I balked at the price of the dedicated egg scales.

I wasn't looking at Murray McMurray's info specifically, but more at what the original intent of the breed was for -- stuff I've picked up from different sources over time.

 

[3KillerBs]

I understand wanting something normal looking that lays blue. Or at least I think I do... I'm going to be spending the next __ years making something crazy that lays blue.

I don't really care about the looks (though I'm hoping to buy extras and then keep the colors I like best), but I do care about egg size and what age they start laying.

I'm hatching some OE crosses, but I'm not keeping anything that's going to take 9 months to lay again.

 

[NatJ]

I never thought of them that way... breeders don't seem to focus on carcass size at all. But I really could have missed it.

I just meant the general body shape. Even if no-one is actually trying to breed Rhode Island Reds for good meat traits, they still have a different body shape than a Leghorn or Hamburg.

I understand wanting something normal looking that lays blue. Or at least I think I do... I'm going to be spending the next __ years making something crazy that lays blue. lol

Exactly You want blue eggs and also certain other traits. I want blue eggs and a different set of other traits. The breed you want, and the breed I want, are not the same as each other, and neither one exists yet.

 

[SourRoses]

I weigh my eggs on my regular digital kitchen scale set to grams. I balked at the price of the dedicated egg scales.

Oh! You always have the good ideas!

I went and did it... Satins egg from today is 61 grams. She's about 10 months old I think. She started laying in January, but they were summer chicks.