Human anti-viral meds for Mareks -- has anyone else tried this?

[Sonya9]

I could not imagine that I could request that the Vet prescribe a human antiviral? I can just imagine how that would go. Him looking at me like I am a crazy person...

Vets in the U.S. prescribe human drugs for off label use in animals all of the time. Recently it was discovered that Tamiflu (antiviral for the flu in humans) is very effective for warding off parvo in exposed puppies, so many vets are using that.

My vet didn't bat an eye at all, he called in a prescription for me at the local pharmacy, he knew I was having a problem with Marek like symptoms in the flock and he understood why I wanted to try the drug.

 

[alibabba]

Cool, I will see if I can get a Vet to help me with this!!!!


At this stage they have been ill for weeks and weeks.... Is it too late to try antivirals?

 

[alibabba]

I am a terrible double dipper lately. So much going on, trying trying trying to figure it out...

Things about the illness of these two has just bothered me from the time they got sick, within days of each other...

They both had mild fowl pox.

The rooster was unaffected (by appearances)

The hen was def down and sleepy, and slow a bit limpy before, but not badly.



She recovered and I saw her run and even peck the younger hens just because.


Then wham, one day she couldn't get on the roost, bumping into the wall.

Then the rooster a day or two later same.



I thought Marek's. The hen who died had the internal form. microscopic tumors throughout her system. She was only ill for days.


These two are clinging for about 6 weeks.

The hen is actually recovering. She has a voracious apetite for specific seeds in the scratch...and calcium....hmmm. I don't think she ate as much of whatever or only had a little piece that has dissolved and passed. Now clearing the remaining


I thought they ate fungus or toxic plants or were poisoned by the neighbors lawn treatment, or the dead frog on the electric fence, the yucky garden pond water, or the stucco, or the paint on the screen porch, or the broken ceramics in the garden or chips off the rusty wire garden fence that seems delicious to chickens, (i think this is the culprit)

Who knew my lovely yard was a haven of death!

I gave both a dose of EDTA I had to drive 30 mins to get at a super health food store. I did the math and gave conservative doses 2 x's today.

So Poppy has had a great day. He drank and pecked ( a little) without the mechanical slow rooster motion. He was more limber. So limber he flipped on his back.

Lilly was on her back 3 x's yesterday. Tonight she did the chicken leg wing stretch!!!

On their back is a good thing, but it freaked me out at first. It means they are feeling things and using their muscles!!!! But, dangerous because they cant get back themselves.

Sorry this is so long. Tomorrow I will call the Vet and hopefully get a scrip for the real EDTA mine has sodium and calcium also (not NACL) not sure of the make up... But I was desperate, next thing to go would have been respiration for Poppy.


And....it could still be Marek's...

 

[seminolewind]

There are so many variables. And who's to say that as much as there are different strains of different strengths, that a few actually recover?Maybe not recover, but maybe a remission?

 

[alibabba]

Yes, that is the thing, remission. I will take it! Especially since you and your flock has given me hope that they may even make it back with their flock! So many say impossible! Obviously without support, they would have been long gone. So strange to note, but Poppy has the best droppings in months this evening. forest green, firm, white top. Picture perfect.

Lilly was hours from death a couple weeks ago now, I am sure. She still doesn't seem to drink enough. I hate to tube her, even near death she fought... I gave her meds and a little extra water from the dropper, just creating a drop and touching the pointy tip of her beak in the opening. No stress, she did good and sat for a little extra. takes time....but no fuss.

And to many chicken farmers or chicken keepers, I am so wasting my time...a $7 chicken. I could have bought 20 new ones with the cost in meds, time, trouble. But, why not try? I love nothing more than a challenge...or someone telling me I can't.

But Lilly is full of life, looking...starting to talk, gobbling, taking steps, trying to groom everywhere, even the difficult spots, that how she ends up on her back.

I love replies, but it's good just to straighten my thoughts here and talk about it....

 

[chooks4life]

Where there is life, there is hope.

Your post made me laugh, the way you described some things, your writing style is very comedic.

But a tragic situation for sure. I hope you find success, if you test this antiviral medication please let us know how it goes. Hope you have a vet as cool as the OP's, lol!

Good luck.

 

[alibabba]

Thanks chooks4life! What a lovely compliment. I am glad that my writing is entertaining. I like to make people laugh, but it's a dry sense of humor, and not everyone gets me.

I get blank stare sometimes, I gave up trying to explain it and just walk away...

So, It's MIller Time...

2nd "Avian" Vet and another $65....Questions about droppings, what is going on with him right now? Asking me to sum up 6 weeks in 2 sentences, difficult for me

....Said probably a waste of time for bloodwork (lead test $150) because he hasn't seen but one poisoning in many years. People who live in old houses...didn't ask me how old my house was.

But, he has seen another chicken recently. So there ya go. Didn't "know where to even acquire chelation meds..." (Then why are they prescribed all over the internet for Raptors and pet Parrots and Budgies?) Well, at least he is looking into it. I didn't even go down the discussing antivirals road....

I hoped to have some real vet support....still feel on my own (with you all of course!) He did say Lilly was a "little miracle".

....still tiny improvements,less falling completely over....I only saw her fall down once all day - In the car on the way.



So how long does remission last from experience? Until stress, or another illness or bad weather? Anyone every had a 2nd recovery?


6 weeks or whatever later, things are pretty efficient in the little hospital, less dishes, clean plastic tubs for support with disposable paper towels, hanging water, feed at mouth level... Many different foods, vitamins, supplements, chemicals...

I tried grits, they have a ton of great nutrition, bunch of iron....and these guys seem kind of anemic.

( They didn't like them wet or dry, they didn't like them, I don't know why...)


Anyone have any more trials with the antivirals?

 

[alibabba]

oh and just for fun....

Went to close the coop and a chicken was missing! Everyone was calm and quiet though, no sign of trouble.....

Hold on!
She was in the nest box, a sitting on the eggs I didn't gather today because I was tooo busy! That is pretty darn cool, I guess I'll slip something back in there, see what she does. She's an EE so I doubt broody will stick. But that cheered me up a bit.

 

[rebrascora]

Quote:
Yes, I've had a second recovery (not 100% but 90+) Hope had her first attack in Sept last year. It started as mild lameness but after a few days she went down and was in the classic Marek's splits posture. A few days later she was back on her feet and limping and by 10 days, you couldn't tell she had been ill. Her second attack was Jan and she had to be admitted to sick bay. She got progressively worse and had to be propped up for at least a couple of weeks, completely unable to stand. I gave her at least 2 "deadlines" for culling but she convinced me to persevere. One of the things that I believe helped her was having a pal in sick bay, Hoppity, whose Marek's also exhibited as lameness in Sept, but didn't improve or get worse. She learned to lift the bad leg and hop and because she is very petite... another Marek's sign... her one good leg is able to take the weight. Anyway, after a few weeks Hope started to lift herself up and turn around in the nest or I would come and she would be out of the nest but still in sick bay,floundering because she couldn't balance. I was feeding them predominantly soaked/fermented mixed corn because that was what they wanted, but they also had fermented layers pellets and scrabbled egg and yoghurt occasionally with turmeric and black pepper. Anything other than mixed corn, I had to tempt then to eat by scooping it up and holding it in front of them..... mealy worms are a good litmus test though. If they will still eat mealy worms there is hope! Once the weather improved and I was able to put them outside through the day and throw mixed corn in and around their cage, so the flock was foraging around them and they were getting grass and sunshine, that's when things really improved dramatically. They are both now fully integrated back into the flock and even get up onto a 4ft high platform to roost and cope with the roosters mating them and lay eggs. Hope walks with the bad leg slightly turned in, which makes her waddle a bit more than a normal chicken walk and her eggs are slightly misshaped, but otherwise you can't tell there is a problem. The great thing is that having a pal has given Hoppity confidence to be part of the flock again too.... she used to hide in a nest box as soon as you let her out of sick bay and I had come to the conclusion she was going to need to be an inmate for the rest of her life. My sick bay has been unoccupied for the past 3 weeks. Yippee!!!

Congrats on your broody. I may be wrong but I believe EE's usually make good broody mothers. I am raising chicks within a Marek's flock unvaccinated. My first 3 chicks since I discovered | have Marek's are now nearly 4 weeks old and are being broody reared. It's looking like they are all cockerels though so they will be for freezer camp anyway, but it will be interesting to see how they do.

 

[alibabba]

Rebrascora, Thank you so much for that great summary!!!

What I have been seeing matches your experience for sure. Getting them out on the grass and dirt... with everyone else talking and checking on them, and trying to take their goodies!...really takes away the depression. Today everyone was lounging around their little pen.

If it's rainy I have been taking the cage to the porch at least so they can hear the sounds and see outside things. I think it would be worse to get chilled at this point. Lily is very concerned about where Poppy is and is getting very vocal about calling for him and talking to the other hens and me.

Once Lily was able to eat, another few days she was able to stand (wobbly and tipping front), another 2 days and no longer tipping front and balancing better, today she got on her back and righted herself. HUGE! It is just a tiny improvement every day. I feel also being outside is helping things along.

Poppy is a bad case, has more neck paralysis, eyes closed most of the time and only has barely perceptible improvements. With him, if he continues to do better, and gets to a decent quality of life, I will help as long as it takes.

If he slides back, he will die on his own I believe. I will tube feed until there is just no improvement. I don't think he is particularly suffering or in "pain" but there is no quality there as he is even now.

Going on 6 weeks of what I feel like is an exhausting battle. It is such a relief that Lily is eating, drinking, pooping and improving. I don't know if I have the stamina to do this again though.