Lavender cuckoo easter egger

[faykokoWV]

I think we have already mail each other about that right?

nope, but I just pm'ed you

my name sound familiar from the Cream Legbar thread

 

[nicalandia]

nope, but I just pm'ed you

my name sound familiar from the Cream Legbar thread

Ok.. here it goes..

what makes Barring such a difficult gene to work with slate/black shanks and black skin(for silkies) is a huge genetic hurdle, why? because Barring and Id are tightly linked(same sex chromosome) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3165529 this means that when a Barred bird is bred to any other breed that Id gene(dermal inhibitor, inhibit dermal melanin including shank, and skin color on silkies) hitchs a ride with the barring gene, this makes slate shanks near imposible to be obtain.

there is only one way to fix this for good and 2 ways to get around this

the only way to fix this for good is to hatch about 300 chicks and expect a few of them to be what we call recombinants, this recombinants Barring is now attatched to a wildtype id+ gene(recessive to Id) id+ allows for dark shanks and skin(on silkies) I have seen a few black skin barred silkies, this means there are already afew recombinants out there, if you have the chance to see any of them(need to make shure they have black skin) just grab one of them for your project(I dought it as they are like gold to silkie breeder, but you can make a loan for a rooster )


other way around is use lavender, lavender seems to inhibit dermal inhibitor, I have a friend that says that only one copy is enought to make her silkies to have slate shanks,but I dont know if this will work on ameraucanas.. I would love to a confirmation on this info from the Lavender cuckoo Ameraucana progect breeder...


The other way around this is what I´m trying to do myself but I dont have the genetic diversity that you guys have in the USA or Europe..

Heterozygous(one copy) of recessive white will inhibit Id to an extent like lavender bu not as much, but with the help of heterozygous Fibromelanotic(black skin) one can have slate shanks on a Red barred bird...

yeah lots of breeding but all good things take that much paint to obtain

 

[nicalandia]

The inheritance of shank-color in Nagoyas and White Silkies
Y. SAEKI), N. ONISHI and M. TAKETOMI
Nihon Chikusan Gakkaiho Vol.25 , No.2-4(1954)pp.127-132
abstract(Link is dead)
* The following on sex-linked Barring & Id effects to Fm on shank and comb/beak pigment:

2. The expression of shank-color in White Silkies is mainly due to id gene, but the black shanks showing various degrees in the shade were observed unexpectedly in F1 males from the crosses of W. Leghorns ×W. Silkies or B. P. Rocks ×W. Silkies.
This may perhaps be caused by the partial suppression of barring induced by the stripe genes hidden under the white plumage in Silkies.
3. Though the shank-color of their progeny is somewhat obscured by the above mentioned reason, in the crosses of White Leghorns×White Silkies or Barred Plymouth Rocks×White Silkies, the inheritance of the comb and bill-color is a typical sexlinked one. Therefore we can surely identify the sex in the hybrid chicks at hatching.




Barred Rock x White Silkie cross cockerel, this cockerel is E/eb B/b+ Id/di+ Fm/fm+





here a Buff Orp(Id) rooster x White silkie hen(id+)



none of this rooster should have slate shanks, because they carry one copy of Id but recessive white found on silkies lets them

 

[mstricer]

Do you have this information for dummies

 

[nicalandia]

Do you have this information for dummies

I thought I had dumbed down...

basiacly one copy of recessive white from white silkies will allow for slate shanks on a bird that also carries one copy of fibromelanotic, and no it wont have black skin, one copy of recessive white inhibit Id partially, not fully, so only slate shanks will be allowed,

 

[Goose and Fig]

Sooo....do we have to use cuckoo silkies that were made from white silkies? Or is that oversimplifying?

 

[faykokoWV]

darn it, the only silkies I have are partridge!


Earlier you said that lavender will also correct for black legs? Can we expect to see more slate shanks in the next generation as we cross these birds back to our lavenders?

 

[jerryse]

My first lavender cuckoo had slate legs.I will go out on a limb here and speculate a little.We have recrssive white in ameraucanas plus wild type [silver] striped chicks.Also wheaten is a varient of BB red [wild type].Soo what if we try using these in the project?A white x silver cross maybe .I have a few project silvers that are 1/4 light brn project 1/4 wheaten and 1/2 silver.I have some pullets also.Maybe one of these x white then x cuckoo.Anyone else willing to try one of these ideas.Maybe a bb red easter egger x white then cuckoo or Wheaten x white then cuckoo.

 

[nicalandia]

Sooo....do we have to use cuckoo silkies that were made from white silkies? Or is that oversimplifying?

only a very few people know about the effect of recessive white on shank/dermal color, I bet 99% of them are not aware of this, so, they have breed the dark shanks and dark skin the "Hard" way which is to breed Lots and Lots of them(500+ hatching eggs) and have goten afew recombinants, so if you are lucky enough to know a breeder of cuckoo silkies and he is at the dark shank/dark skin stage(alot of them are not at this stage, so their birds have white shanks and this are not good for your progect) you should try and get a rooster from that breeder, I know this brings alot of other unwanted genes but hey they have done the hard work themself already, eliminating unwanted genes is nothing compared to that..

 

[nicalandia]

darn it, the only silkies I have are partridge!


Earlier you said that lavender will also correct for black legs? Can we expect to see more slate shanks in the next generation as we cross these birds back to our lavenders?

I suspect this is true, a friend of mine in the UK said that one copy of lavender is also capable of allowing dark shanks, I have yet to see this, can you please confirm this for me, do you have splits that show some shank pigmintation?