Lazy Peachick

[Peafowlssssssss]

This peachick isn't active these days like before, someone told me it could be a problem of lack calcium, so i got this powder today, is that enough? And i give this powder every month, so they don't get sick again?



The video isn't really showing anything because he isn't moving, usually he jumps when i get that close!

 

[DylansMom]

Home already?

Home? Goodness no, but still around.




And I actually saw a Peacock yesterday, as well as an iguana and several mongoose. 86 in St. Croix today...... single digits at home

hope my birdies are okay.

 

[DylansMom]

What's the Ca level? I've had my peachicks with a feed tray full of medicated gamebird chick feed at 28% protein. I can't remember the Ca level but I need to look at the feed next time I go into the place I buy the feed. I know that feather eating can be caused by Ca deficiency. I though Ca would promote healthy bone structure and development in all animals and healthy, strong feathers and eggshells for birds.

Calcium is listed as min .75 % and max. 1.25%. Keep in mind that excessive Calcium can cause abnormal bone growth in young chicks. It's another of those "too much of a good thing can be a bad thing" situations.

 

[rbaker0345]

Direct fecal smears are less accurate and less likely to show eggs if they have a low level infestation because, unles there is fecal matter right there in the mouth of the rectal sphincter, all you are getting is residue which has been smeared across the wall of the rectum. However, if you do a direct smear and you find eggs- you know you've got yourself a problem. Each species of worms lays a different number of eggs or oocytes. For example, if you do a fecal on an adult bird and you find one or two coccidia oocysts per frame, you need not treat for coccidia because each adult produces hundreds (that's not an exact number, I'm just pulling that out of my rear) of "eggs". On the other hand, if you find one capillaria egg on an entire slide, then you definitely have to start treatment for capillaria (whipworms). This is because the female whipworm only lays a few eggs at a time. But if you do a direct smear and find any of these, you should treat.


A fecal floatation comes from the cecum- a lump of poo and it will place nearly every parasite egg from that lump (and anything else with a similar specific gravity) onto the slide so if you find a handful of coccidia in an adult bird- no problem (unless the bird is already immune compromised, i.e. mareks disease). But, again, if you find even one capillaria- you treat. I treat if I find one of anything but coccidia and this is where we get into false negatives.

Parasites all live and grow in a predictable cycle. Depending on the parasite and their host tissue/organ of choice, they are either making themselves comfy, encysted in the cells of their host or they are laying eggs (that's a really simplified lifecycle but it narrows it down to the two most important stages).


It is best to use fresh poo, most eggs break down after a certqin number of hours.

 

[AugeredIn]

You gave it your best effort and that's all you can do. Every year we lose a couple that we really don't want to lose. We lost a bird that is a new color or a variation on an existing one this year. It happens. Between hatching and 7-8 months, Peas are just delicate in many ways.

Although I very rarely do this myself, I do suggest you open the bird up just to look at the liver. If all of casportpony's posts have done nothing else (and she has done plenty of other things), they have proven that long term illness such as what you have experienced are almost (90%) always due to protozoan based infections and diseases that affect the internal organs, primarily the liver. I think it would be good for you to confirm the problem/result if for no other reason than to convince yourself of a course of action for future problems.

Generally, worms will not kill a bird. Neither will coccidiosis. It is the secondary problems caused internally by worm overload. There are multiple stages to these illnesses/diseases. The first stage is the failure of the birds systems to adequately deal with worms resulting in worm overload and general stress on the bird. The second stage is the birds systems being unable to deal with the disease itself.

The first stage can be prevented by regular and EFFECTIVE worming. The beginning of the second stage can be cured by the use of Metronidazole if the damage is not severe.

We tend to lump all of there diseases into the "blackhead" label but there are actually many.

 

[AugeredIn]

@AugeredIn , how many mg/kg are you finding that it takes to be effective? I am about to start some metronidazole in my pen, and this is the first time I have used it.

Also, have you ever tried using the milk thistle or either of the other two dietary supplements that RBaker mentioned yesterday?

I don't have my info in front of me but I know that I have given 400 mg in one day to birds in the 1.5 to 2 kg range to try and save them. I would not give that dosage as a preventative or to a possibly infected flock/pen. Be careful using it as a preventative, we don't want to develop a resistance. Use it only if you suspect you have a problem. Use the wormers more frequently and effectively.

 

[Garden Peas]

Also, a veterinarian who treats dogs and cats can usually (at least here in the U.S.) run fecal samples, either in-house or they have a lab that they send the samples out to, for processing.

It will not harm the bird to medicate for coccidia and worms, even if he turns out not to have them. If you can send a photo of poo (yes, it's gross), @casportpony will surely want to comment on it... In the meantime, you can look to see whether it looks normal or not. She has just started a whole thread of poo pictures. If your vet will run fecals, take the freshest sample that you can obtain.

The reason to see whether it is normal or abnormal looking is because both worms and coccidia damage the bird's intestinal tract, which eventually makes the bird ill, and may, when severe enough, show up as visibly abnormal poo. But it may not look bad when the bird is first becoming visibly ill, as yours is, which is why the vets run fecals with microscopes and other technology.

Here is the link to the poo thread:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/941731/peafowl-poop-normal-and-abnormal-lots-of-poop-pictures

 

[Garden Peas]

Thank you so much, i'm that i don't need to go outside again i'm sooo tired

, Here is the other side:

Yes, that is the same stuff I just wrote about. Good. The birds will benefit from it I hope. Yes, meantime you must rest so you can care for them in the morning. It is always a mother's dilemma

 

[Garden Peas]

(My comments in blue)

The pile of poo on the white feather looks good. The yellow liquid poo in the background is worrisome and not normal.




The yellow, runny, mucousy poo in this picture worries me:

Let me try to explain... I know it is confusing.

There are two different issues... worms and coccidia. For the most part, they are treated with different medications. Both worms and coccidia damage the birds' digestive systems and intestinal tracts.

Worms are treated with wormers. I have been using "fenbendazole" (one brand name for this medication in the US is "Safeguard", another is "Panacur."). @Trefoil has just written of "albendazole" which I am not familiar with, but I did find discussed on Wikipedia just now. Some wormers have names that end in "azole." Ivermectin is another, different kind of antiparasitic medication used against worms, however it is believed to not necessarily be effective against some worms to which peafowl are susceptible. It still works against mites (external parasites), so there are still uses for it.

Coccidia are protozoa -- a different kind of organism from worms. Coccidia are treated and prevented with "coccidiostat" medications. There are different kinds of coccidiostats. The amprolium we have been discussing is one kind which works against many, but not all, strains of coccidia. Sulfadimethoxine is an antibiotic which is effective against bacteria, but which will also kill some strains of protozoa -- some of the strains of coccidia.

Amprolium is often included in chick feed because chicks are highly susceptible to coccidia. It is also available to use separately as a preventative or when an outbreak occurs, to treat the condition. When a chick feed says on the label that it it "medicated" feed, that often (at least in the U.S.) indicates it contains amprolium.

Yes, you could give the amprolium monthly, or on some regular schedule. You can put it in the water. Usually when it is given as a preventative, the dosage is smaller. When given to treat sick birds, the dosage is higher. @casportpony has a list of all the dosages posted in different threads and I think linked at the bottom of her posts. Worming should also be done preventatively on a regular basis... I think you are doing that already?

I hope this helps.

Vets here in the U.S. typically check fecal samples for both worms (worms, worm segments, worm eggs) and for protozoal cysts, which can only be seen with a microscope. That helps guide the decision whether to treat for worms or for coccidia or both.

 

[Garden Peas]

I do have a worming schedule for my birds, last time i wormed them 2 months ago, can peafowls get worms from eating live worms? I have seen few tiny worms in their coop, not sure if some of them ate it. I will get Amprolium and i will use every month, and i think i'm going to change their feed, i don't trust these local brands, i will get back to get Versele Laga chick starter feed, its one of the few internationally brands that sold here, last year chicks was doing great on it. Vets here could check fecal samples, but i know i have to wait a long time for that, everytime i visit these vets they ask to come later, i know they would like to care for dogs and cats more, also they will cost a lot with almost doing nothing.

Good that you have a worming schedule, bad that you are seeing tiny worms in poo. Or do you mean you saw worms in their coop, where the birds live? They can get worms from worm eggs practically anywhere, but especially in other bird or animal poo. However, if they eat a live worm (like an earthworm), it should be digested as it passes through the system, so it should not be visible in their poo. If there are worms visible in the bird's poo, those worms probably grew inside the bird from eggs, and are infesting the bird as a parasite. These are parasite worms, not earthworms or beneficial worms. If you see tiny worms in the coop, I would try to figure out where those worms are coming from... are they worms that were passed out by a bird in its poo? Or are they something like an earthworm that the birds dug up while rooting around in the dirt?

If a bird eats earthworms (like the worms from a garden), it is not necessarily bad, but it can get protozoa from the worms which can live in the bird and make it ill. The protozoa are controlled by the coccidiostats like amprolium and the antibiotic/anticoccidiostat sulfadimethoxone.

Yes, vets are expensive, and even here in the U.S., some are more helpful than others. Some vets here will run a fecal and only charge a small amount of money, and will tell the owner the results. Others are very expensive. And few vets here know anything about birds, so it can be very difficult to get help with the birds.

Sometimes treating with wormers and coccidiostats is enough... it just depends. If there is good vet advice available, then of course that is best. But if not, it helps if you are able to figure out things from the clues the birds give you, such as the lethargy, droopy wings, and abnormal poo.

If, by the way, you ever do see tiny worms in the poo, you should immediately worm the flock, regardless of whether the flock has been wormed... unless it is just a day or two later, while they birds may still be expelling the worms which have died as a result of treatment.

Not all wormers are equally effective on all kinds of worms. If birds are not improving after treatment with one wormer, sometimes it is helpful to change to another. Ivermectin is not thought to be as useful against worms as it once may have been, so it may be better to start with fenbendazole, or perhaps the one Trefoil mentioned, albendazole. It would be good to find out what wormer your vet has been using. If he has only been using Ivermectin, you should worm again with a different wormer, to make sure you are effectively controlling the parasites. I'm sure @casportpony has more suggestions, too!

I hope your birds continue to improve.