Line breeding: how do I get started?

[Yoyo with chick]

Now... I haven't been breeding poultry for as long as you have, and I love all the help you guys have been giving me. However I simply didn't agree that you guys were bickering over some thing that I personally think shouldn't be in the beginning guide to line breeding. Anyways... Let's put this behind us and move on with the conversation of line breeding and major factors of this technique.
Best wishes from the beginning poultry breeder!

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,

If I was wanting to line-breed, the first thing I would do is surround myself with quality knowledge
which would help me understand what I was seeing in the birds and how to manage cause
and effort for best improvement. These are the 9-10 books I would use as the core of my library
and why :
1. The 2010 APA Standard of Perfection . If you don't know the Standard, it's hard to breed to it.
The 1st 40 pages are extremely educational. http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/store.htm
2. Van Dort, Hancox, and Friends, :The Genetics Of Chicken Colours- The Basics".
An understandable text on "breeding to feather", latter half includes a superb pictorial encyclopedia
of poultry plumage, the pictures are captioned with the genetic formulas. http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina3.html
3. Van Dort, "The Genetics Of Chicken Extremities", A slightly more scientific but readable text
on "breeding to type" devoted to topics not covered in the 1st volume. http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina19.html
4. , Card, Wetherell Henry. , "Laws governing the breeding of standard fowls. ". By a respected
veteran poultry man describing the major and minor breeding laws. Plus the value of (and a
time tested technique) for linebreeding. Despite the book's age, the knowledge is timeless.
Wid Card was Danne Honour's uncle's uncle. http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.087299559;view=1up;seq=5
5. Davis, J. H. "The Art of Breeding". A classic, entertaining book describing the basic philosophies
behind "the art of breeding". http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003135401;view=1up;seq=5
6. Brereton ,Grant , "21st Century Poultry Breeding", A great treatment of breeding techniques
focusing mostly on Wyandottes, yet with information for all to enjoy.
http://poultrykeeper.com/book-reviews/21st-century-poultry-breeding-book-review Available thru http://www.Amazon.com
7. Brian Reeder, "An Introduction to Color Forms of the Domestic Fowl"
http://brianreederbreeder.blogspot.com/
8. Brian Reeder, " An Introduction To Form And Feathering Of The Domestic Fowl"
http://brianreederbreeder.blogspot.com/ Brian writes a column for this ezine: http://www.exhibitionpoultry.net/
9. One or two classic books on one's chosen breed.
Many of these classic books are online. My fav book databases are :
Hathi Trust Digital Library
(some texts not available "full view" outside the USA)
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ls?a=page&page=advanced
Google Books
As these old public domain books get reprinted, they often succumb
to "snippet", "preview" or "limited search" options. If you see one you
like, download it.
http://books.google.com/advanced_book_search
The Internet Archive
https://archive.org/
I am having trouble with this site's security certificate , however, I
think it is the new security software I had installed, not the site.
Core Historical Literature of Agriculture (CHLA)
and of course the rest of the Cornell collections. The James Rice Poultry
Collection is esp. fascinating.
http://chla.library.cornell.edu/

This is the core of my breeding library. The only 2 books I have not read are 3 and 8. I look
forward to acquiring them this year, first 3 then 8. There are always more books to read,
however these 9 or 10 will form a a firm foundation on which to begin. If I could only afford 5,
it would be the 1st 5 in descending order. Books 4 and 5 are readable for free online.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[gjensen]

Some of the best resources are the old books. I enjoy reading them, and especially appreciate the perspective. My only warning would be to be on guard for outdated information. It is easy to believe it all as if it was the gospel. In some instances, we know ore than what we did. In other cases, we have forgotten.
I came to believe a lot that I found to be different later. As the internet is full of bad information, poultry keeping was full of wife's tales. It is only a matter of keeping your mind open, do not assume you know much, and test everything. Pay special attention to perspective and emphasis.

The older information is especially interesting when it is related to breeds or a class of breeds that you are interested in. It helps to get a sense of what they are, the collective effort it took to get them where they are (or were at their prime).
I think the best thing we can do is to have a sincere interest in a given breed, and get a good sense of what they are. It is impossible to make any real progress, unless there is a clear picture of were you are going, and some idea on how to get there. It is impossible to be faithful to a breed, without have a good sense of what they are (or what they were).

The fundamentals of breeding has not and will not change. The basics of inheritance has not changed.

The link to the color genetics resource could be very handy. It is helpful to understand the basics, and the basics behind the color of the breed/variety that you are interested. The knowledge of color genetics will not make you a breeder or not. It is a resource and a tool. You will hear and read of many people that can recite it all from memory, but could not breed mice. I mention this because I see it over emphasized. I am interested in genetics, but their is so much more to the bird than the color of their feathers.
That said, you have to learn the color you want to work with. Especially with poultry. There are no general color requirements and range of tolerances with poultry. They have to be right, and there is more than melanin at play. They are not mammals.
Many of these colors and patterns, you could spend a lifetime on, and still be getting better at breeding it. And doing that as nothing to do with the letters.

For the last five years, or so, I have been interested in black tailed red, black tailed buff, and black tailed white. I am just starting to get a feel for it, and I have a long long ways to go. Balancing the black is a challenge all on it's own. Making sure it is not where it isn't supposed to be, and is where it is supposed to be. It is easier said than done. The requirements are pretty precise.This is why experienced breeders tend to recommend easier colors to beginners. It is easy to get lost in a color starting out. There is a lot to learn, just in the color. The color genetics will help you understand it, but doing it is another matter.
Especially for a variety that is not in good shape, and a ground up type of effort. It is one thing to maintain something, and it is another to build something.

The best educator is the process. You do not become a breeder by reading books, or chatting about it online. You get it by doing it. When you are breeding something with a goal, the progress is rewarding, and the setbacks can be discouraging (or motivating). It can become work, or it can become a pleasure. It does not take long to find out just how interested you are. It costs real money, and it takes real time. A lot of it. It is pretty humbling when you look back and calculate all that you have put into it. Not everyone can or should invest that much.

I like it to gardening. Many envision a huge beautiful garden. They read the books, the till the soil, and they plant the seeds while the enthusiasm is full. Then the eat comes, and the pests, and the weeds, and the diseases. Some, when the work comes, will let it all get away from them. Everyone will have failures and setbacks. Over time, you figure out hat works, what doesn't work, and why. Some will temper their expectations, and some will become even ore passionate. Some will be satisfied with continuing with a few tomato plants every year, and some will remain passionate enough to become master gardeners.
Poultry breeding (or any animal) requires a passion for the breed, dedication, commitment, and the setbacks is something that motivates us all the more. The figuring it out, is half of the fun.

You cannot breed animals on paper or the internet.

The breeds need people that will actually learn to breed them, and actually breed them for improvement.

There is no magic in line breeding. Quite a few years ago, I had some mixed reds. I knew nothing of breeding poultry, the internet, the APA, etc. etc. I just like having some birds. There was one male that I grew out that stuck out to me. I liked that bird, so I decided to breed him. I instinctively did not want to breed him to his sisters, so I bred him to the hens I had. I picked a son that was an awful lot like him, and used him on his father's sisters (his aunts).
My point is that was my first experience with line breeding, even before I knew what it was called. I just liked a bird, and I wanted more like him. I began to favor hens, and think along these lines. Now keep in mind, these were from feed store chick. I knew just a little less than I know now, but the point is that it is not rocket science.
It is an organized, structured method, to move a population in a positive direction using the resources that you have. There is a number of plans, methods, likes, and dislikes. You get familiar with options, but you end up going with what suits you, your circumstances, and goals.

All of this is coming from a beginner. I am no master breeder, or expert. I just enjoy the birds, and I am enjoying trying my hand at it. It is a very rewarding hobby for someone that really enjoys the birds, and in particular a certain breed.

 

[chooks4life]

Might be relevant if we could get some experts on linebreeding or just breeding in general onto this thread to state their preferred methods. I'll see if I can get someone to come comment. Or just find some links with some info or plans laid out so people can review it and the varying merits of each plan. I freely admit I'm no expert on breeding, most of my breeding has been watching genetics in play with minimal interference except to remove the worst, at least that's what I did in the first few years. Definitely worth doing I reckon for the educational aspect of it, but then again not everyone's working with mongrels or under the conditions I did (and do).

Best wishes to all. Still detecting some unnecessary and misguided antagonism here IMO, I can't see how it could be more than a misunderstanding, perception of personal attacks where there are none.

 

[Bo Garrett]

There are some good resources on this topic located on the American Bantam Association website. Searching for answers here will result in mostly opinions, of which there are many offered here and I will not offer my own so as to add to the confusion. There are tried and tested methods of line breeding, once you have found a method that best suits your operation stick with it.

 

[sandiklaws]

The best information on line breeding specific to chickens I have found has been on the game bird cock fighting forums. I don't approve of the practice, but most of the famous lines have been line bred for decades, some for more than one hundred years.

 

[Yoyo with chick]

Thanks! That is a lot of help

 

[Yoyo with chick]

So what should my parent stock be? A bro sis pair or non related pair?

 

[Matt1616]

So what should my parent stock be? A bro sis pair or non related pair?

If they are not related...it is not "linebreeding".

 

[Yoyo with chick]

I get it know!