Livestock guardian dogs

[animals1981]

this is just for simple predators like bears, bobcats, foxes, fishers, coyotes, hawks, stray dogs I think 1 good dog is enough if its a really good dog from good bloodlines


but if you have pumas and wolves u will need a pack to deter them if they are serious

Because this will happen with large predators like a wolf or a puma will make quick work if they are dead serious



Note the breed is a great pyr which is usually the LGD that often is victimized by predators. If you want a serious dog do your research and get something that can handle a stronger predator. This dog was killed by a single wolf.

 

[centrarchid]

Great Pyrenees, even if arthritic can handle a coyote one on one with ease. The show folks have not ruined them yet for defense of poultry although that may not be case when charges are sheep and goats being targeted by grey wolves which are two to four times larger than coyotes and more apt to operate as a pack. If predators are operating as pack, then regardless of LGD breed used mutliple LGD's needed to keep situation under control. Even with best LGD breeds / individuals losses should not be expected to come to complete stop since some members of flock will drift away from protection from time to time or predators work out a system to distract dogs.

With poultry, biggest problem is going to come from critters smaller than coyotes; namely foxes and raccoons. Some LGD's are overkill for those.

 

[animals1981]

but why go with something that has become much softer? There are other breeds like maremma, anatolian shepherds and kuvasz that are not overkill but still sharper.

For poultry and small animals i agree you dont need something serious but still from personal experience with great pyr and from my friends experience with them and their failure to stop his sheep from being slaughtered from eastern coyotes which are part wolf I would never get one to live out 24/7 because i would not feel secure. As cute and beautiful and charming as they are.


I know another woman that has lost sheep while have having hers on board but she switched to getting a CO and never lost a single animal again. It is much more hot and confrontational to predators nothing dares to challenge it in his domain.


Great pyr can shut down easy in the face of danger its a breeding issue. Breeds become too popular they get watered down to fit city living and their work ethic becomes very poor.

 

[centrarchid]

I work where we have multiple breeds of LGD. Breeds are Great Pyrenees, Anitolian, Commodore and Akbash. My preference for my reality is Akbash owing to its speed but that simply my preference. They have advantages and disadvantages but all are well suited to for poultry where a fence is also involved. If you have a situation where dog is killed by predator is is assigned to protect against, then that is a management issue that should be corrected with more LGD's. Regardless of breed, a single LGD will not be a able contend with multiple large predators working as a team.

I have been doing this chicken and predator game for a fairly long time and still learning. The business of of not loosing a single animal can be just as much luck. Sometimes predator pressure is heavy, sometimes light. The dog just makes so when heavy losses are tolerable. Look into challenges faced by larger sheep producers that employ LGD's of any breed. You will find they report occsaional losses but losses are greatly reduced by LGD's doing their job. You will als find they do not agree on what breeds are best.

 

[animals1981]

the thing is the more forward and serious the dog is the coyotes or coywolves pick up on that. Its a mentality thing. They know what dogs are dead serious and want to fight and attack for real and what dogs are just in it for a bluff or a chase. Remember coyotes are smarter than dogs. So When a coyote or coywolf or wolf figures out a LGD bluff they will shut it down (make the dog submit force it to back off). Or just killl it.


A single very serious large dog can do the job if hes very intent on killing smart coyotes will pick up on and they arent gonna die for a sheep which are coyotes. SOme coyotes will try to sneak in and kill but when they get caught they can be killed.


There are working dogs out there that are so intent on killing and love the kill they can easily pure the fear of god into coyotes these dogs want to fight and kill. CO and CAO have it in them a lot of times.

A lot of people dont like them because they have human aggression also.


Light predator pressure can always turn heavy you never know what will happen in the future. Better to have a dog that can do anything/everything.

You can always add a lama in with the dog if you wanted some extra comfort instead of getting 2 dogs. Just need to make sure they get along ok. You can try and do a donkey also but the donkey might try to kill it.

You can try smaller animals with a powerful LGD that might work also like geese, gueneas or even emus these animals can help the dog out to better do its job and or do little protecting of their own.


Things like alpaca and emu will kick and attack the odd mink or coon, fox that gets in their way but they probably wont be much of a serious hero and can be killed easy themsleves.

 

[SD Bird Lady]

I found this interesting but also wanted to add that dogs are individual as well. My inlaws have 2 blue heelers from the same parents but different litters. One is terrified of coons while the other will tangle with anything that enters the yard, cats included but neither of them have ever taken a chicken. It depends on what you are looking for.

@ Centrarchid What are you referring too where you say where a fence is involved? Won't the fence be problematic for a dog who cannot get in or out of a fence that sly predators are able to scale with no problem? I mean if it can hold a chicken it can hold a dog, right? i am not doubting you I am just new to this and am curious what type of system you have.

 

[farmer boy]

my biggest problem are with birds of prey i have eagles that live across a river from me but i never lost one to them but they will come over to my place and fly around .. i had a fox come in and kill my duck at night i have 3 dogs but they live inside i have a pitbull a australian shepherd x boder collie and then i have a husky x lab x chow chow ... so i have the brains and the bronze but they are pets but my dog cody the husky mix is more of the fighter he got in a lot of fights with other dogs and killed a lot of raccoon's but hes never fought with a coyote or killed any foxes

 

[centrarchid]

@ Centrarchid What are you referring too where you say where a fence is involved? Won't the fence be problematic for a dog who cannot get in or out of a fence that sly predators are able to scale with no problem? I mean if it can hold a chicken it can hold a dog, right? i am not doubting you I am just new to this and am curious what type of system you have.

Poultry have relatively tight home range centered on roost, feeding / foraging areas and cover. That area is in my experience a lot tighter than roaming habits of virtually any type of dog. For me, ideal situation is to have fence that totally encompasses the free-ranging area of birds and has a buffer between flock's free-rangin area and fence. That extra gap buys dog time to react when small / smart fast predator attempts to do the snatch and run which is so easy with chickens. If fenced area too small and dog tight, then yes predator can use fence as cover against even the meanest dog. My fencing is not even dog tight but is provides a discontinuity in the enviroment that impedes predator enough to give it a point to stop and reflect if it is the sort that has gall to take on dog. A lot of predators do no like to take risk of taking on another predator simply for the chance of getting a chicken. The fence makes predators situation more risky if dog comes after it.

My fencing the predator goes through as does dog but dog can also jump in much same manner as a coyote does. Many of my chickens could fly over a 20' tall fence with ease although chicks and juveniles could even go through the electrified stuff so I give them reasons stay away from fence.


My present situation operates with birds totally free-range with only fencing to north. Fence does not stop chickens, dogs or predators but it still is a boundary that can with dogs on job give birds a refuge and buy dogs time to get over and protect. Same fence with only one dog makes protecting birds more difficult because fox can use it as cover. With two dogs, the dogs have learned to have one go headlong after fox while second kind of holds back like a wingman and gets into fox when it tries cutting back across fence. The second dog is faster of two. We have had two contact events with fox over last month and a half and at some point such will be lethal for the 10 lb red fox as second dog becomes more experinced. We did get one early this summer but that was luck where dog stalked fox while it stocked something else. Once fox caught, game is over. Coyotes would be tuffer but they are not willing to hunt under dog's nose. Coyotes respect fence with dogs present and dogs occasionally chase them beyond fence but for most part coyotes give my property fairly wide birth.

 

[animals1981]

if you leave other breeds like a husky allone with stock 24/7 there is a good chance they will get bored and just kill your animals eventually. That is the problem with a lot of breeds they will get bored and just start slaughtering your animals OR they just don't bothered doing anything at all if they are too docile.


Like the above poster said many dogs will be scared of predators also not all will play a hero. Many will chase until they corner it and then thats it no more they wont actually fight the predator if the predator turns around to fight them. It takes a very serious dog to actually attack a cornered predator and kill it. Im not talking small things like a possem, rat or baby coon. Talking big things a coyote, large adult coon, eagle, fisher or bobcat.


Smaller animals like rats, weasels small mink and possums even a good cat will go after. Does not take much effort to dispatch them. I have seen a big tom cat kill a possum in california.

I would not worry that much about bald eagles they are clumsy and always looking for an easy way out they rather kill an owl or a hawk that is eating the chicken than go and hunt a chicken. They lack speed and they dont put in much effort. Sure they can and have kill a chicken or a goose if they chance happens but they dont have the stoop speed for it. They are sea eagles they arent meant for it they just do it when they get a good chance. GOlden eagles on the other hand are the true killers and lethal killers that can take anything they want if they put their mind on it they can take out a dog or a wolf or a coyote they are leopards of the sky. Bald eagle will sneak behind a bird of prey feeding and just eat the bird of prey with its meal they are total opportunists wanting a easy way. Chickens sound an alarm the bald eagle wont be able to get them on land.

They use bald eagles to protect rare foxes off the coast of california from excessive golden eagle predation.

 

[animals1981]

also i think the worst predator are stray dogs when you free range ur chickens they will cause hell on them which is why very serious LGD will do the trick. Stray dogs can gang up on a lama but havent heard of them ganging up on a standard donkey yet. With stray dogs I find that if your dog starts mauling the alpha the others will stop the attack and run away. No dog i have ever owned would ever just go after a group or pair of stray dogs and pull down the head one and just maul him to death other than my import ***** shepherd from slovakian police lines. The rest would never do it. They have to much high self worth and their aggression fight/kill drive or whatever is never enough. I assume its because of generation after generation of tight breeding for dogs that can bring down adult men really easy on the street. They breed for solid strong grips and courage. She was easily able to transfer this to dogs.