Looking for advice

[Ridgeback825]

We live in Florida's largest HOA and our city limits are huge. Almost everyone is within the city limits. They recently allowed backyard flocks with ridiculous restrictions on placement, "movable" housing and a limit of 4 hens. We have roosters until they are meat size, currently have 22 chickens and 3 pekin ducks all in our backyard on a .33 acre lot. I made the mistake of buying an incubator and have been hatching some for friends that have yet to complete their coops. If our self serving city can cave even a little, any can. There was an experiment in a Polish town that gave any families free chickens to reduce the landfill load and it was all positive. If that fails, tell them they identify as golden retrievers.

 

[Brooks_]

We live in Florida's largest HOA

You live in the Villages?

 

[Ridgeback825]

You live in the Villages?

No, North Port. No shower scrungies on my car! Lol

 

[Bertie-Merle]

So, we recently went to the town hall hoping to read the ordinances for ourselves, but the lady insisted on knowing what we were looking for and instead of just letting us peruse one of the books, decided to "help" us by repeating the 3 acre minimum. We were also introduced to another person there who said that we could apply for a special permit but it would require fees, paperwork, and that he'd instantly deny the permit anyway because it's against the rules, which were put in place back in 2007 and apparently can't be changed. When I asked questions, I was not given actual answers. They danced around the discussion and kept simply saying it's against rules. Another annoyance was when they told in such self-congratulatory tones how they took a lady's chickens from her not too long ago.

We didn't purchase a copy of the ordinance book because we didn't have $10 cash on us and they are too low-tech for cards. I do plan to get a copy in the near future, though.

Before we left, we were told that we could attend the town council meeting on Monday, if we wanted, but it was said in that way that makes you know that the words they didn't bother to say were "...but it won't do any good".

So, if this is the general mentality of the local government, how do you even begin to reason with such close-mindedness? How do you fight against small-town tyranny?

You cannot be charged to access your city codes and ordinances. That is illegal. They may charge you to use a copy machine on premise if they don't have an online site, (which they should have!!!!), but you can still take pictures of the pages. Why this would be required in the first place and the codes and ordinances not be available free to the public online in the first place is a problem of it's own.

I would suggest that you put together an organized set of talking points and questions to be addressed by the council, have handy copies of some reasonable livestock poultry-specific ordinances from neighboring townships and cities, if possible, but not required .... then make a formal request to be placed on the public comment agenda for your next town/city council meeting. If you have friendly relationships with your neighbors it would be helpful for you to discuss this with them first, such as the type of coop and proposed placement in number of feet/yards from their property lines and from their residence, and number and type of birds you are considering. Even if you have neighbors who you do not know, there's no time like the present to introduce yourself and gently float the topic to get their reactions. Bringing a couple of like-minded neighbors or statements from them or at least some neighbors who would be agreeable to you having a small flock to the city council meeting would be very helpful. (Note that roosters are typically an issue with many city ordinances.)

In the meantime, I'd also suggest you find out what city council person represents your district as well as who are the "at large" council people and contact them and discuss it in a professional and civil manner, letting them know that you have researched typical ordinances of other areas that do allow personal family flocks and what their restrictions and requirements are for examples for them to consider.

I wish you the best, but you're going to have to get involved in local politics and remind these council members that they work FOR YOU and your fellow citizens and they need to provide you easy accessibility to your ordinances and you and your neighbors need to get INVOLVED!

Let us know how it goes or if you need more help. I've been down this road with city councils. A well prepared case and a professional attitude and presentation and some collaboration with neighbors go a long way! ; -)

 

[Bertie-Merle]

Sadly, moving is much more easily said than done. Trust me, right about now I'd be thrilled to scamper off, but it's just not in the cards.

Edited to add:
I'm preparing some pro-chicken arguments in case I can find a willing ear that will hear me out. I'm hoping they aren't all jerks on the council.

I am linking to our, in my opinion, very reasonable city ordinances for livestock, specifically chicken and foul.

It works in our suburban/rural mixed community and it is well accepted by the citizenry.

I would suggest reading it closely, along with the exceptions and the acreage and distance measurements and map out your property to just get an idea of how your situation would sit within such regulations of distance from other residences, animals/acre, etc.

Let me know if you have questions or feedback after reading our ordinances here in Alvin, Texas.

https://library.municode.com/tx/alvin/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTIICOOR_CH4ANFO

 

[Lardson]

So, we recently went to the town hall hoping to read the ordinances for ourselves, but the lady insisted on knowing what we were looking for and instead of just letting us peruse one of the books, decided to "help" us by repeating the 3 acre minimum. We were also introduced to another person there who said that we could apply for a special permit but it would require fees, paperwork, and that he'd instantly deny the permit anyway because it's against the rules, which were put in place back in 2007 and apparently can't be changed. When I asked questions, I was not given actual answers. They danced around the discussion and kept simply saying it's against rules. Another annoyance was when they told in such self-congratulatory tones how they took a lady's chickens from her not too long ago.

We didn't purchase a copy of the ordinance book because we didn't have $10 cash on us and they are too low-tech for cards. I do plan to get a copy in the near future, though.

Before we left, we were told that we could attend the town council meeting on Monday, if we wanted, but it was said in that way that makes you know that the words they didn't bother to say were "...but it won't do any good".

So, if this is the general mentality of the local government, how do you even begin to reason with such close-mindedness? How do you fight against small-town tyranny?

An unjust law is no law at all.

 

[agarnp]

fight for what you think is right and just! Good luck to you.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

An unjust law is no law at all.

It sounds to me like you taxpayers need to take your local government back from these bitties, because they're obviously out of control. You're paying the tax bills.

That said, I'm a Marine's daughter and a fighter ... but that's just me. ; -)

 

[David61]

my city council person who has been a board member for 40 years said and i quote "don't ask" . City code is "complaint driven" code enforcement in small towns are a joke. If your neighbors are ok with it... just don't get a rooster or 45 free range chickens. Most cities allow 2-4 chickens.
know your local laws and stay out of city hall. A few birds well kept will not be noticed.
A smelly, unkept bunch of birds running around is why code was written.

 

[Bertie-Merle]

my city council person who has been a board member for 40 years said and i quote "don't ask" . City code is "complaint driven" code enforcement in small towns are a joke. If your neighbors are ok with it... just don't get a rooster or 45 free range chickens. Most cities allow 2-4 chickens.
know your local laws and stay out of city hall. A few birds well kept will not be noticed.
A smelly, unkept bunch of birds running around is why code was written.

I live in a small town and it's not run that way. I think we have very reasonable ordinances, (I've referenced a link to them above as an example), and they're open to proposals for change and public discussion being put on the meeting schedules, and all ordinance changes are subject to open ballot elections. The very fact that these people won't make the very ordinances that they "govern by" openly accessible to the taxpayers themselves is HUGE red flag. That said, if no one stands up then you get what you get and deal with it.