Marans - SOP discussion thread

[ashandvine]

Okay. So you are throwing out links like rice at a wedding. I need some step by step here. I know I sound blonde. Apologies.t I got sent over here because I had questions about Maran beaks and eyes. I work well with images. "I know it when I see it." I asked if anyone had tracked eye color in chicks and if they had what the indications were genetically. I asked about beak color/markings in chicks versus adults for breeding to SOP. I also asked about toes. If that outside toe is a bit short is that just a DQ or a fault? I would like to think I could breed shorter toed gals with otherwise great type to a nice roo and be fine. Anyone know??

I have 8 chicks here. Two cockerels and six pullets. I am dividing them with a friend and we are going to try breeding our groups a bit to see how each turns out. I would like to make some educated guesses based on the appearance of these at 4-5 weeks but don't find much on identifying more than long toe short toe or mossiness from early coloring. Any more links??

 

[stoopid]

The shorter toe is called rudimentary, or polydactyl. It is a fault, not a DQ.
The nail is usually smaller, or missing, which will be a deduction in points.
Is is most common in feather legged breeds.
If you are serious, go out and get a "Standard of Perfection" from the APA.
Alot of people complain about the cost, but this is how they can stay in business.
You can even find the older copies for sale used, the info is the same, it just may not have the newer breeds in it.
Heck, I got a new one, and Marans are not even in it yet. The standard is posted in the other Marans thread.
And don't cull too quickly for eye color, as it seems to change as the birds mature.

 

[snowbird]

The shorter toe is called rudimentary, or polydactyl. It is a fault, not a DQ.
The nail is usually smaller, or missing, which will be a deduction in points.
Is is most common in feather legged breeds.
If you are serious, go out and get a "Standard of Perfection" from the APA.
Alot of people complain about the cost, but this is how they can stay in business.
You can even find the older copies for sale used, the info is the same, it just may not have the newer breeds in it.
Heck, I got a new one, and Marans are not even in it yet. The standard is posted in the other Marans thread.
And don't cull too quickly for eye color, as it seems to change as the birds mature.

Stoo, In feather leg breeds the rudimentary toe is not a fault or DQ it is accepted.

 

[stoopid]

I know, Don. But we all would like "normal" toes.
If you had 2 identical birds, and one had them and one didn't....wouldn't you say it was a fault?

 

[Arielle]

I know, Don. But we all would like "normal" toes.
If you had 2 identical birds, and one had them and one didn't....wouldn't you say it was a fault?

I was under the impression that the rudimentary toe goes with the leg feathering. Like this: if you want good leg feathering, a shorter outer toe is a given.

 

[stoopid]

Yes, they do go hand in hand. (toe in foot?)
It is accepted.
But there are feather legged birds with full outer toes, No?

 

[snowbird]

I know, Don. But we all would like "normal" toes.
If you had 2 identical birds, and one had them and one didn't....wouldn't you say it was a fault?

Stoo, I would not be afraid to use a bird with this toe in a breeding pen. No I would not say it is a fault since the SOP says rudimentary outer toe not to be penalized. Yes we all would rather not have this toe but if the bird is good mostly everywhere else keep the bird.

If I had enough good otherwise fowl I would not breed this bird with the toe short.

 

[stoopid]

OK, just what I thought.
Thanks, Don!

 

[Arielle]

Don, ashesandvines asked this. Wondered if you might have a go at it.

"[I wondered if anyone] had tracked eye color in chicks and if they had what the indications were genetically. [What] about beak color/markings in chicks versus adults for breeding to SOP. "

 

[gilavina]

The bottom line is that the APA are the ones to decide what is and isn't a fault or DQ...personal preferences in breeding are the perogative of the breeder, but are just that, preferences, versus a recognized fault. This is where we have to know what the standard for birds in general are and for the Marans specifically in order to make our decisions about breeding. I would not hesitate to use a bird with rudimentary toes if they have qualities I am looking for in my stock.