MG Certified hatcheries/breeders?

[Sonja73]

I agree 100%! I wish that the breeders that hide behind "Breeding for Disease Resistance" would get informed. I am so sick of hearing about people having to depopulate due to mycoplasma. I want these people to explain to my friend's kindergarten daughter that finds her pet chickens dying; how well their breeding program is working. It makes me sick.

"It's just a cold", no it is not. Chickens do not get colds.

"It is everywhere, 95% of backyard flocks have it." No, it is not. There is not a single study that has been conducted to reach those numbers. Maybe 95% of the tests that a particular lab runs are positive for Mycoplasma, but who sends in samples of healthy chickens?

"I breed for disease resistance." Sorry, unless you have a lab inside your home and you are continuously testing for whatever disease you are trying to build resistance to, I call BS. Also, if you cannot have an intelligent conversation about the B Complex genetics in poultry, or try to say that it is like cows or humans, you are wrong. Completely different MHC.

Ooooh, you have me fired up again! haha

 

[MacCana]

Haha! Sorry about that!

But it is true. I have heard of people doing it the right way (continually testing to remove it from breeding stock), but a lot are honestly too soft hearted to cull for illness, deformity, or injury (& I'm talkin debilitating stuff here) so instead they fix it all up & do whatever they can to keep them alive.
This is something that, for a long time, has been mostly something people in rural areas/farmers, who have been making these kinds of decisions since they started. That's because, when you're raising your birds for either money or as staples for your family, one sick bird could mean devastation in the wallet or in the egg & meat dept. Now that it's becoming more popular to raise your own small flock, you're having newcomers beginning a hobby that unfortunately, is hard to find credible & reliable sources to go to for, to help with your questions/dilemmas.

So they do the best they can given what they have & of course, they try to save the bird(s). I can't tell you how many people here in rural southeast Tennessee that are getting into chickens, and not knowing that chickens can easily get diseases making them life carriers.
These birds are then (hopefully) unknowingly sold to someone else, where they then infect theirs too. And the cycle continues until someone slightly educated on the matter steps in or gets thrown into the cycle that ends the problem. By either depopulating or closing in the flock. No new birds go in or out.
Honestly I'm not sure how to approach it 100%. The reports of 95% of all U.S. flocks containing it has to be overshot, though I wouldn't expect the number to be low. If 95% were the odds we were dealing with, it would be *insanely* difficult to find anyone to buy chicks from that weren't sick. Which I have been doing up until I ended up with a sick hen from some locals. I culled & sent off a guinea and a rooster from my flock for testing Monday. I should find out something soon. It's hard to say whether the breeders "breeding for resistance" are right or wrong. I mean, I lead more towards wrong, bc I would rather stop an illness completely, not produce birds that are infected, but don't show symptoms. The only reason I couldn't see them at being completely wrong is that if more & more people do continue to jump aboard this wagon & get their own chickens (which is AWESOME that people want to know where their food comes from), but don't have the right available resources, the mycoplasmas will spread more & more unless they make one of two right decisions for their flock....but in someone who doesn't know any better, it's almost unavoidable once "Chicken Math" fever sets in. Viewing it that way, this may be something we never get rid of that eventually is mainstream in most poultry. Then, would it have been better to cull rather than breed for resistance?

The best scenario would be for people to get the necessary info when needed, and for more resources to be available for first timers. And once something is identified in your flock, to deal with it in one of two right ways. Cull or Close. That's the only way we'll be able to win the fight against these diseases in the long run. It can be devastating, but you won' t have to learn your lesson ever again.
You buy, sell, and swap until everything in your flock is sneezing is what usually happens.

We need to be educating our chicken friends & neighbors as they share our journey. And also, never stop researching, I still learn something new all the time.

 

[aldk]

How do you test your birds. Do you have to send samples in or can you do it yourself somehow?
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[Sonja73]

How do you test your birds. Do you have to send samples in or can you do it yourself somehow?
\

There are "Do it yourself" kits available on line. Anyone can send in samples to any lab that tests for poultry mycoplasma. I personally have the state out every 90 days to test. I realize that this is not an option for most folks.

 

[aldk]

I have not ever seen such a kit where do you get it? Thanks

 

[MacCana]

I have not been able to find an actual site to purchase these kits, nor a price tag, but have found sites promoting them. That why I decided to go with the state. Laws may differ, but here the department of agriculture's lab(s) must do tests for free if you consume your birds eggs or meat. Which is fabulous!

All it cost me was approx. $37 shipping to send off one large box containing one of my guinea fowl, and a rooster. Not fun, but neccessary sacrifices for the greater good. Once you have to cull 16 chicks bc they are so sick and far gone, you are willing to do what it takes to try to save what you have left...even if that means culling two more birds for the testing. It took them one week exactly. I did not list a vet, partially bc I wanted to have the results sent to me directly & also because we don't have any local avian vets whatsoever.....

I have gotten the report back on the guinea. The rooster's should come in the morning. I will try to attach it on here for anyone curious, and also because I need help deciphering what exactly they are saying the problem is, which is apparently Bacterial Enteritis. I have Googled and came up with necrotic enteritis, but I am looking for the meaning of this specifically -- if anyone should know? or possibly have some links to sites with info on this? I still plan on calling the vet in the morning, he'll may be at last be able to tell me what that means. It is killing me not knowing their fates

Okay...so it won't let me make an attachment. I guess I'll have to paste it here....

Okay, here...

Purpose of Test:
Diagnostic

Animal Information:
Guinea Fowl ; AVIAN - Guinea Fowl

Diagnosis:
Bacterial Enteritis

Final Diagnosis Comment:
The most significant histopathological finding is the bacterial enteritis. Bacterial culture from intestine yielded E. coli (see results below). Consultation with your veterinarian is recommended for prevention and treatment options.

Gross Examination:
Presented is a young, male, Guinea Fowl in good body condition with mild postmortem autolysis. On general examination, the head is decapitated (euthanasia). Upon opening the body, there is multiorgan congestion (common postmortem finding). The liver is pale. The small intestine is focally reddened. No other significant gross findings are observed in the body.

Gross Examination Diagnosis:
Enteritis
Euthanasia

Gross Examination Comments:
More results will follow to determine the cause of clinical respiratory signs as stated by owner.
Histopathology:
Multiple tissues are examined. Sections from intestine are moderately thickened by lymphocytes, plasma cells and heterophils. The liver has diffuse vacular change. There is mild fat atrophy within the mesentery. Remaining tissues are unremarkable.

Lab Findings Page 1 of 2 - Final (10/8/2014)
- Ellington Agricultural Center - Accession No: K1419857
Bacteriology:
Sample
Test Name
Organism
Quantifier
Guinea Fowl - AVIAN - Guinea Fowl

Lung - Fresh Tissue - 1:
Aerobic Culture Farm
No Growth
Intestine - Swab/Culturette - 2
Aerobic Culture Farm
Escherichia coli, Beta-haemolytic
>500 cfu

Liver - Fresh Tissue - 3
Aerobic Culture Farm
Escherichia coli, Beta-haemolytic
<25 cfu

Immunology:
Sample
Test Name
Result
Guinea Fowl - AVIAN - Guinea Fowl

Lung - Fresh Tissue - 1:
Chlamydia - FA (Farm)
Negative

Liver - Fresh Tissue - 3:
Chlamydia - FA (Farm)
Negative

Spleen - Fresh Tissue - 4:
Chlamydia - FA (Farm)
Negative

Parasitology:
Guinea Fowl - Feces - 2
Test: Fecal Flotation - Sucrose Centrifugation Method:
Organism 1
No parasitic forms seen

Bulletin(s)

For current updates to Kord Lab pricing and policies, go to http://www.tn.gov/agriculture/regulatory/kord.shtml Page 2

 

[Sonja73]

So it looks like that is the preliminary necropsy results, and they have not done any culture tests. i.e. AGAR, ELISA, etc. There is inflammation of the intestine, due to E. Coli. A lot of time that is where you will start seeing signs of mycoplasma, when there are two infections going on at the same time. If I were to take a guess, if they did a swab, that is what they would find, either MS or MG as well. Keep us updated!

 

[MacCana]

So it looks like that is the preliminary necropsy results, and they have not done any culture tests. i.e. AGAR, ELISA, etc. There is inflammation of the intestine, due to E. Coli. A lot of time that is where you will start seeing signs of mycoplasma, when there are two infections going on at the same time. If I were to take a guess, if they did a swab, that is what they would find, either MS or MG as well. Keep us updated!

Do I need to call them back in the morning and ask them to do a swab? I specifically mentioned testing for ms and mg when I sent in the submission forms. The woman I talked to had a very heavy foreign accent, so I couldn't make out everything she said, but she did mention something about mycoplasmas. I was hoping since nothing on the form said "mycoplasma", she was saying that they have yet to be sure that thats hat it as, or she was talking about a different submission...idk wishful thinking I guess.

Thinking on it more clearly now, I believe she was telling me once they finish testing on the rooster, they'll be able to tell me more about it?
I'll definitely post any results.
As of now, I am just hoping that the silkie baby that hatched 3 days ago (my silkies just began laying b4 all this started) doesn't have what this is. I collected 3 eggs before I began noticing symptoms. One was fertile. And it's an absolutely perfect baby...
I am not enjoying this at all

 

[Sonja73]

If the breeders of the silkies were not showing signs of illness, the percentage of vertical/horizontal transmission is lower. i.e. Signs of illness=Higher transmission, No Signs=Lower transmission. At this point I would quarantine any that are showing any signs of illness. You may be able to stop it from transmitting throughout your flock.

You are right, it does not appear that they have done any cultures/tests for mycoplasma yet. Depending on the test they do, it could take a week or so for results.

It is a very long week.

 

[MacCana]

If the breeders of the silkies were not showing signs of illness, the percentage of vertical/horizontal transmission is lower. i.e. Signs of illness=Higher transmission, No Signs=Lower transmission. At this point I would quarantine any that are showing any signs of illness. You may be able to stop it from transmitting throughout your flock.

You are right, it does not appear that they have done any cultures/tests for mycoplasma yet. Depending on the test they do, it could take a week or so for results.

It is a very long week.

Oh it's too late for separation. 75% of my flock had a bit where they had clear runny noses through all this. Now none of my birds are showing signs of illness (And I haven't given them medication) so I'm just going to depopulate most likely once the rest of the results come in.
I am just glad I will be getting to keep the little baby silky. My splash bearded silky rooster, Big Worm, is amazing. So at least I'll get to keep a piece of him after he's gone. It definitely has been a long week. I just am ready for this problem to be resolved.
I never knew until I got out on my own & had my own, well kept, flock how many nasty germs chickens can get. I was doing the buy, sell, swap thing with locals. Bc I never experienced a problem like this. Now I know how stupidly reckless that is.

And frankly, I am not surprised it didn't happen before now. I will be ordering only from tested hatcheries next time & will be keeping a closed flock. Anything new I get will come from reliable sources.
I just wish all this knowledge had been available to me when I started. Not after learning a hard lesson.