muscovy - silver/lavendar?

[rollyard]

Hmmm, yes I can see where confusion sets in as terms often used loosely! As I understand, "self" does equal "solid coloured" (no pattern/white markings), so a self blue could be interpretted both ways I guess, ie, solid coloured blue (N/n+), & self breeding blue (l/l). Still, self blue (or probably less confusing/more accurate, true breeding blue) is the term fairly commonly assigned to Lavender & applied across species. Some references in support; Here & Here & Here & Here.

Maybe a matter of interpretation though as you say.

I would still be interested in any info @ all that would support Bronze (hobbyname in Aus) & Sepia being product of seperate distinct genes, as I have often wondered?

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
Perhaps you could cross a Bronze with a Sepia. If you get neither in the F1, then they are truly two separate genes. If you get all Bronze or all Sepia, that would indicate that the two phenotypes result from the possession of a common gene, but that one phenotype requires the addition of another gene to be visual that is lacking in the other color. This other gene could be Dusky, or it could be something else entirely. If you want to know if it's dusky, find out if either color is always dusky or wild-type, and if not, if the appearance is affected by that gene. So you'd want to know the difference between Sepia wild-type, Sepia dusky, Bronze wild-type, and Bronze dusky. If you can't tell the difference between Bronze dusky and Sepia dusky, and the breeding follows a genetic test that would work either way, then you'd have evidence that the two are the result of the same gene, with the modifying effect of dusky. And if dusky had nothing to do with it, perhaps there's another gene working to modify Sepia into Bronze -- you'd have to examine and tag differences in duckling colors all the way through to maturity to know.

I guess as IaJewel keeps telling me, you'll have to get the birds and try it out for yourself -- unless you know someone who already has, and can show you pictures. If you do find someone with pictures, please share here.

 

[rollyard]

Testing for allelism/phenotype, which was what I was implying when I said "any breeding outcomes! Four potential outcomes (if pure for respective alleles) you have desribed based on Sepia, Bronze, Wild-type, & Dusky (eg, Sepia modified black), where Sepia & Bronze distinct genes, not to mention possible influence from other potential modifying factors for testing!

Quote:
I no longer have any "Bronze" Muscovy nor do I intend getting them, but that doesn't also mean that I no longer have an interest either! I thought I had found someone who had something substantial to offer in the way of findings, hence my enquiry, but thanks for suggestion anyway. I appreciate information put forward.

Edited after reading through more carefully & clearer understanding of what you are saying.

 

[Schaman]

Just found this thread ...

Sepia (Faiogeno) = Bronze (my opinion)

Sepia / Faiogeno / Bronze can be of wild type or in combination with aitpico / dusky. Atipico / dusky may occur in different genetic variants, and we do not know everything about how they differ.

Do not think you have the gene (Sepia / Faiogeno) in the U.S.

Mixes to sepia / faiogeno / bronze with blue you can get Fumo's (Smoky Grey) or with pearl-gray (Silvers), Tortora.

We get essentially the same results (Fumo's) in Sweden and Australia, if we ignore atipico / dusky factors.

This suggests that sepia / faiogeno and bronze are of the same genetic type!

 

[iajewel]

Interesting. Can you point me to the study or article so that I can read the whole thing? This is very interesting .

 

[Schaman]

Quote:
Due nuove varietà di colore nel piumaggio dell'Anatra muschiata (Cairinamoschata domestica L.) sorte per mutazione
A. Taibel a Giardino Zoologico di Torino, 1961

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/11250006109436439

 

[iajewel]

Awesome, thank you. I will take time today to read this. Link #1 doesn't work.

 

[Schaman]

Quote:
Hope your Italian language skills are better than mine

 

[iajewel]

Im fluent in Spanish and that helps a bit. Not much.. but.. I will get through it. This does demonstrate whoever how information doesn't travel well. What one country may know as fact, another may not know at all. I ran into this with horses doing historical genetics. What the Spanish knew for hundreds of years, American barely understood to be fact in the travel of some genetic strains. This is true in many things. We can't read each others research. Unless you are fluent, or working at a high University, you don't have access to the info. I will get through this today and post what I learn for others. I can't say I will get it all, but I can get most of it.