Neighborhood dogs keep killing chickens

[calvertcounty]

I think you'd be in your legal right to trap a trespassing dog. Missouri, for example, states in statue § 578.016:

1. Any duly authorized public health official, law enforcement official, or animal control officer
may impound any animal found outside of the owned or rented property of the owner or
custodian of such animal when such animal shows evidence of neglect or abuse. Any animal
impounded pursuant to this section shall be:
(1) If the owner can be ascertained and the animal is not diseased or disabled beyond
recovery for any useful purpose, held for recovery by the owner. The owner shall be
notified within five business days of impoundment by phone or by mail of the animal’s
location and recovery procedures. The animal shall be held for ten business days. An
animal unclaimed after ten business days may be put up for adoption or humanely killed


You can definitely trap 'wildlife' - you can call animal control to see what the deal is if you're worried they are somebody's pet and they are collared (there does seem to be some ambiguity in Missouri's law - which is hopefully clearer in other states).

 

[blucoondawg]

If dogs can get them so can something else. Dogs can be big hitters although in many / most situations wildlife is a more consistent, especially in more rural locations. Same measures for controlling losses to both apply.

It doesn't get much more rural than where I am in the woods of northern Wisconsin with 1000s of acres of forest land out my back door. I have a secure coop and run that I can lock up and not have a problem, everyone should have an area that can be closed at night, I also let my chickens out when I want to and aside from the occasional hawk or owl attack in the fall after the leaves go off I have never had issues with wild predators at all and if I did have them around I would shoot them, if I lost a chicken I would lock them up and wait til the offender retuned then I would shoot them. I do have animals around anything from skunk to black bear I see their tracks in the mud or snow they aren't around much and don't come around that often, dogs on the other hand come around continually once they start unless something is done about it. And saying something to the owner doesn't matter, he doesn't give a **** of his dogs are in your yard or his horses and the horses he boards for others are wandering in the blacktop road, crapping all over your driveway, or eating and trampling your garden, when they get loose they are often let run for days, he doesn't care, he feels since his dad owns more land than anyone else in the area that he can do what he wants and has said as much, well you only own 6 acres. There is only 1 solution for that problem and I refuse to keep my animals confined on my own land because of a d bag like that

 

[blucoondawg]

Shooting is not time wise. I have shot many wild predators and trapped a good number as well. Keeping closed flocks long term has taught me repelling ground predators is first line of defense. Shooting and trapping is reserved for the relatively rare events where first line fails.


Bluecoondog and Chickencanoe, when it comes to the gungho approach with a firearm to put down a dog that left my property I can call up personal experience. Recently some neighbors cheered me in my efforts. Another party related to dog owner had a gun trained on me through front window while her spouse talked to me even though my unarmed firearm was not held in a minacing manner and I was cool headed. At that point in time I was not aware of the gun trained on me. Think of possibilities if I were hot headed. I was already a a one man lench mob even though acting within the law. Some parties were concerned for their dogs safety even though I new exactly what dog I was after. We must back away from the wild west approach as it gets dicey even for the good guys when everyone exercises their 2nd amendment rights as a way to reinforce their attitude..

You have your opinion and I have mine. I never once suggested going looking for an offending dog to shoot them after the fact. I am referring to shooting a dog on your property harassing your livestock. It isn't a wild West approach its solving the problem at hand and I really don't care what anyone thinks about it. Shooting the dog is only legal here if it is in the act of damaging property.

 

[MeepBeep]

I think you'd be in your legal right to trap a trespassing dog.  Missouri, for example, states in statue § 578.016:

1. Any duly authorized public health official, law enforcement official, or animal control officer
may impound any animal found outside of the owned or rented property of the owner or
custodian of such animal when such animal shows evidence of neglect or abuse. Any animal
impounded pursuant to this section shall be:
(1) If the owner can be ascertained and the animal is not diseased or disabled beyond
recovery for any useful purpose, held for recovery by the owner. The owner shall be
notified within five business days of impoundment by phone or by mail of the animal’s
location and recovery procedures. The animal shall be held for ten business days. An
animal unclaimed after ten business days may be put up for adoption or humanely killed

That law applies to "duly authorized public health official, law enforcement official or animal control officer" I doubt many people here fit that description...

You can definitely trap 'wildlife' - you can call animal control to see what the deal is if you're worried they are somebody's pet and they are collared (there does seem to be some ambiguity in Missouri's law - which is hopefully clearer in other states).

I most definitely can not just legally trap wildlife in my state without a lot of red tape, to be blunt it's illegal for me to trap without first obtaining a license... I need to apply for a 'Nuisance Animal Removal Permit' these are rarely approved they will almost always direct you to a commercial paid nuisance animal agency that will do it for a fee or they will advise you to wait for trapping season (if there is one) and get trapping/hunting permits... And even if I trap wildlife, relocation is not really a legal option as the laws forbid it or make it beyond practical for almost all animals, meaning the only realistic legal option left after trapping is to let it go on the same exact property (nothing solved with this option) it was trapped on or killing it...

With that said if I was to set a trap without a licence and happened to catch the neighbors dog, they would have a very good case for making my life miserable by reporting me for illegal trapping and likely animal cruelty... I know of no law in Illinois that allows me to 'trap' a pet dog while making me immune to liability from the owner or potential cruelty charges from law enforcement... And as I said I'm not going to open myself up to liability and potential criminal charges when the law will protect me if I simply shoot it in the first place...

 

[calvertcounty]

That law applies to "duly authorized public health official, law enforcement official or animal control officer" I doubt many people here fit that description...
I most definitely can not just legally trap wildlife in my state without a lot of red tape, to be blunt it's illegal for me to trap without first obtaining a license... I need to apply for a 'Nuisance Animal Removal Permit' these are rarely approved they will almost always direct you to a commercial paid nuisance animal agency that will do it for a fee or they will advise you to wait for trapping season (if there is one) and get trapping/hunting permits... And even if I trap wildlife, relocation is not really a legal option as the laws forbid it or make it beyond practical for almost all animals, meaning the only realistic legal option left after trapping is to let it go on the same exact property (nothing solved with this option) it was trapped on or killing it...

With that said if I was to set a trap without a licence and happened to catch the neighbors dog, they would have a very good case for making my life miserable by reporting me for illegal trapping and likely animal cruelty... I know of no law in Illinois that allows me to 'trap' a pet dog while making me immune to liability from the owner or potential cruelty charges from law enforcement... And as I said I'm not going to open myself up to liability and potential criminal charges when the law will protect me if I simply shoot it in the first place...

I was responding to the Missouri case where you can usually trap wildlife that is damaging your property (though your need to consult local ordinances):
http://mdc.mo.gov/your-property/pro...e-native-wildlife/wildlife-control-guidelines

If wildlife is damaging your property, you or your representative — such as a relative, friend, neighbor, or someone you hire — may shoot or trap most damage-causing wildlife out of season and without a permit to prevent further damage. Note: Wildlife you may not shoot or trap under this provision are migratory birds, white-tailed deer, mule deer, elk, turkeys, black bears, mountain lions, and any endangered species. For conflicts with these species, contact your local county conservation agent or nearest Department office. Control action may be taken only on your property. Wildlife you take under this provision may not be used in any way, and you must report it to the Department within 24 hours, then dispose of it in accordance with Department instructions. Check with local city or county authorities regarding the use of traps and firearms in local jurisdictions.

With respect to the impoundment, the argument there would be that you have the live trap on your private property. You're not impounding the dog as that is the incarceration of the animal by the public official. You might be right though - Illinois law is ambiguous enough that I would recommend the original poster call animal control and ask them to set a trap on their property if this is a recurring event. That way, if you're uncomfortable killing the animal (and if you don't want to piss off the inconsiderate neighbor way way more than if you just trapped them), you can still trap them without being liable for cruelty issues.

Other options for the original poster (depending on circumstances):

- Look at some of the dog repellents on sale (in addition to an electric fence) such as ultra sonic devices, etc.
- If you think you know who the dogs belong to, set up a video camera and take that to the neighbor/animal control


Depending on where you live, shooting the offending dog isn't that clear in terms of your potential liability: https://www.animallaw.info/article/what-claims-can-be-brought-when-pet-has-been-shot-unlawfully

 

[MeepBeep]

Depending on where you live, shooting the offending dog isn't that clear in terms of your potential liability: https://www.animallaw.info/article/what-claims-can-be-brought-when-pet-has-been-shot-unlawfully

Shooting a dog attacking my livestock is not unlawful in my state, thus that is not applicable...

With respect to the impoundment, the argument there would be that you have the live trap on your private property. 

The mere act of setting said trap without a nuisance animal remove permit (or trapping permit) is technically illegal in my state, doesn't matter if it's on my property... I sure as heck would not advise admitting guilt of a crime as a defense to another crime, that is just silly and likely not going to get you very far...

Wildlife you take under this provision may not be used in any way, and you must report it to the Department within 24 hours, then dispose of it in accordance with Department instructions.

Some keywords there 'dispose of it in accordance with Department instructions' and if we scroll down the page we get those instructions...

Disposing of trapped problem wildlife humanely
Relocation not recommended
After you trap a damage-causing animal, you must dispose of it properly. Although relocation may seem like a good idea, we do not recommend it. Moving an animal can spread disease. Also, a strange animal coming into an established local population of the same species (a strange, disoriented squirrel coming into an established community of squirrels, for example) can upset the local group’s social order and possibly its health. Further, a relocated animal does not know where to find food or other resources and may likely starve to death. Finally, moving the animal might simply create a problem for someone else at the new location. You should also know that most federal, state, and local agencies prohibit the release of wildlife on lands they own or manage (including Department properties). For these reasons, we recommend killing the animal.

Since it's illegal to release on most federal, state or locally owned lands that means your only real viable option is to release it on someone else's private property and I certainly hope you get permission from said property owner and are not illegally dumping your problems on their property... Or you could follow the Departments recommended instructions and kill it after trapping...

 

[calvertcounty]

Shooting a dog attacking my livestock is not unlawful in my state, thus that is not applicable...
The mere act of setting said trap without a nuisance animal remove permit (or trapping permit) is technically illegal in my state, doesn't matter if it's on my property... I sure as heck would not advise admitting guilt of a crime as a defense to another crime, that is just silly and likely not going to get you very far...
Some keywords there 'dispose of it in accordance with Department instructions' and if we scroll down the page we get those instructions...
Since it's illegal to release on most federal, state or locally owned lands that means your only real viable option is to release it on someone else's private property and I certainly hope you get permission from said property owner and are not illegally dumping your problems on their property... Or you could follow the Departments recommended instructions and kill it after trapping...

Yep - I agree with you on the options after trapping wildlife (in my experience, the better option is just killing the animal). If the original poster lives in your state then they can certainly follow your advice, but it's pretty clear there are pretty significant state-by-state variations.

 

[kekstrom]

Just wondering if anyone has tried to communicate to the neighbors first. "If your dog is on my property again, harassing my flock, I will have to shoot him"? We have a whole pack of loose dogs around our home (neighborhood in rural town). And if they were caught even sniffing around our coop, my husband would be knocking on doors to warn people. We have 2 BEAUTIFUL labs that we don't leash (don't have to). And I would hate it if we just took matters into our own hands and shot one of the neighbors dogs due to damaging our flock to only have the owners try to shoot one of our harmless family dogs. But if warned first I think it might deter any bad relations? Opinions?

 

[bobbi-j]

If I knew who's dogs they were, I'd be willing to warn a first time offender. But the OP said in the very first thread that they didn't know who the owners were. Add to that, that the dogs keep coming back, and they would disappear around here.

 

[pipAchick]

I am all for door knocking! Dont think many,many times i dont leash(or crate) the nuisance k9&drag it right to front door ringing door bells. Thank heavens only once a coon made it INTO our coop(yeah its dead). Its been reinforced. Most of the time I get an appology,an "omg I didnt realize a chicken could cost that much?!" I have many dogs,young children&egg buyers stopping by I dont need them scared off by a neighbors dog SO I make it my buisness to know my neighbors and what pets they have...just today searching for some random beagles owner,ugh-here we go again. I deal with it the way I would if I where in their shoes,(how would you want to be treated?)which usually results in a new egg customer&sometimes an educated friend years later. Again anyone has the right to defend there livestock or pets HOW you choose to do it is upto the law&you. Educating yourself is key&will only make your life easier.