Old and Rare Breeds

[BKPUCKETT]

I know you experts know your stuff but why cant you answer a direct question.with a straight answer?

 

[fowlman01]

I think I am confused on what breeding to the Standard means...Saladin, cubakid, and Walt seem to be the experts here if we could get a definition form each maybe that would help


I would think breeding to the Standard would mean, mating the 2 birds most like the Standard in the breeding pen
Using a bird not of the Standard in the breeding pen, doesn't seem like that would be called Breeding to the Standard.............. If Y'al could help us beginners please

This has been answered well by several people after your post, but I will add that The Standard is a description of the ideal bird and as noted there is no ideal bird. Some get close though. After 50 years of playing with these things, it is my opinion that taking two birds that look very close to the SOP does not necessarily mean that you will get like progeny. You may not have the same results with the same two birds the next time you mate them together as far as that goes. Unlike some other animals, taking two show winners and mating them together might give you some good ones and it might also give you some birds that look like some other rooster mated with them. Until you establish your line of birds you may have many odd results....particularly if you don't know what is really in the genetic makeup of the birds. My wife has successfully raised Corgis, for over 30 years and I think getting good dogs is a lot easier than getting good chickens...but that is just me. In chickens you have to win over hundreds, if not thousands of birds to get a real champion.

You should breed toward the SOP, the SOP only gives you the target. Breeding is an acquired skill/art that some people never attain, but you can still do well if you follow advice from real breeders.......not mass producers of chickens. It is very easy to make lots of chickens, but very, very difficult to make chickens that come close to the SOP description.

I guess the best way to explain it to you is: Chickens can LOOK a certain way, but many times you can't tell what they are really carrying genetically until you have mated them and recorded the results for a few years. Some of the traits don't show up early on. Many people spend a lot of money and buy show winners and mate them and within two years or less, the birds look like hatchery birds instead of show winners. There is a lot more to this hobby than most folks realize. I am certainly still learning.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

I know you experts know your stuff but why cant you answer a direct question.with a straight answer?

I don't think anyone is trying to hide anything from you, but unless you come to Cali and spend a ton of time with me, it is hard to cram this many years experience in a few paragraphs. Maybe I answered some of your questions with this last post. I just returned form two shows this weekend and haven't read anything here carefully yet.

Walt

 

[saladin]

Honestly, I didn't read anything that wasn't very straight forward. LOL, I've been accused of lots of things but a lack of straight-forwardness/bluntness was never one of them

 

[BKPUCKETT]

This has been answered well by several people after your post, but I will add that The Standard is a description of the ideal bird and as noted there is no ideal bird. Some get close though. After 50 years of playing with these things, it is my opinion that taking two birds that look very close to the SOP does not necessarily mean that you will get like progeny. You may not have the same results with the same two birds the next time you mate them together as far as that goes. Unlike some other animals, taking two show winners and mating them together might give you some good ones and it might also give you some birds that look like some other rooster mated with them. Until you establish your line of birds you may have many odd results....particularly if you don't know what is really in the genetic makeup of the birds. My wife has successfully raised Corgis, for over 30 years and I think getting good dogs is a lot easier than getting good chickens...but that is just me. In chickens you have to win over hundreds, if not thousands of birds to get a real champion.

You should breed toward the SOP, the SOP only gives you the target. Breeding is an acquired skill/art that some people never attain, but you can still do well if you follow advice from real breeders.......not mass producers of chickens. It is very easy to make lots of chickens, but very, very difficult to make chickens that come close to the SOP description.

I guess the best way to explain it to you is: Chickens can LOOK a certain way, but many times you can't tell what they are really carrying genetically until you have mated them and recorded the results for a few years. Some of the traits don't show up early on. Many people spend a lot of money and buy show winners and mate them and within two years or less, the birds look like hatchery birds instead of show winners. There is a lot more to this hobby than most folks realize. I am certainly still learning.

Walt

This is good the best so far. We started discussing the Standard here (excitable or unacceptable). BBRed OEGB can you get blue ribbon winners both mail and female form single matting? Yes or NO

 

[saladin]

I don't raise OEG bantams, but the answer should be Yes.

 

[saladin]

Actually, we are a bit off topic here as OEG bantams are neither 'old' nor 'rare.' The discussion on the Standard is however very relevant.

 

[BKPUCKETT]

I don't raise OEG bantams, but the answer should be Yes.

1st Thanks for a straight answer.
2nd Sorry about OEGB someone used them as an example.
3rd I think most people know what double matting is if not we can discuss that later This is a discussion of the standard (acceptable or unacceptable) Using the example OEGB.and your answer (YES) this makes the Standard acceptable. If there is a breed or verity that is not possible to produce Blue Ribbon birds both male and female with single matting then the Standard is unacceptable and should be rewritten. That is my opinion and that is all we have here is a place to discuss opinions.

 

[fowlman01]

This is good the best so far. We started discussing the Standard here (excitable or unacceptable). BBRed OEGB can you get blue ribbon winners both mail and female form single matting? Yes or NO

Yes, I have done it.

Walt

 

[BKPUCKETT]

I don't think anyone is trying to hide anything from you, but unless you come to Cali and spend a ton of time with me, it is hard to cram this many years experience in a few paragraphs. Maybe I answered some of your questions with this last post. I just returned form two shows this weekend and haven't read anything here carefully yet.

Walt

I am sure your experience is great that is why I ask you.
We are discussing the standard (acceptable or unacceptable)
Basted on your your experience I ask a question A simple YES or NO is all I ask for.