Old and Rare Breeds

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Looking at Greenfire farm's line of partridge orpingtons they imported, I'm guessing by the color of the males that they are a pullet line. I just asked a friend if her birds were a male line or a female line because the male had so much color/pattern in his breast. I remember seeing a pic somewhere of a pair of birds that produced one of the best partridge rock pullets at a show in the UK, the female had amazing pattern and the male looked more like a New Hampshire with some smuttyness. I never breed anything for male/female lines, too much trouble. With the sumatras, we just have to keep the tails high enough in the females to keep the male's tails above horizontal when they're younger so that they will lower to horizontal as his tail grows

 

[jonih]

Having issues with my androis device so im commenting and will try again to subsvribe tmw.

 

[OSUman]

I dont think it is entirely on purpose with the Orps....

Looking at Greenfire farm's line of partridge orpingtons they imported, I'm guessing by the color of the males that they are a pullet line. I just asked a friend if her birds were a male line or a female line because the male had so much color/pattern in his breast. I remember seeing a pic somewhere of a pair of birds that produced one of the best partridge rock pullets at a show in the UK, the female had amazing pattern and the male looked more like a New Hampshire with some smuttyness. I never breed anything for male/female lines, too much trouble. With the sumatras, we just have to keep the tails high enough in the females to keep the male's tails above horizontal when they're younger so that they will lower to horizontal as his tail grows

 

[Pozees]

I am finally connected with a gentleman in Ontario who has Belgium Meschel Malines and am ordering eggs! I am so excited. Here are two sites he shared with me that you might find interesting.
The first one is about the breed in general and the second is from his site.

http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/06E01A07.pdf
http://www.bulbsoffire.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=81&Itemid=109

Interesting breed, what color are you getting, do you know? Sounds like you will have to monitor food intake as they grow up, huh?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Looking at Greenfire farm's line of partridge orpingtons they imported, I'm guessing by the color of the males that they are a pullet line. I just asked a friend if her birds were a male line or a female line because the male had so much color/pattern in his breast. I remember seeing a pic somewhere of a pair of birds that produced one of the best partridge rock pullets at a show in the UK, the female had amazing pattern and the male looked more like a New Hampshire with some smuttyness. I never breed anything for male/female lines, too much trouble. With the sumatras, we just have to keep the tails high enough in the females to keep the male's tails above horizontal when they're younger so that they will lower to horizontal as his tail grows

Would that then be an admission that essentially you run a male line? We've done the same in Muscovies, we keep the female face small enough to keep the male caruncling just within the respectable.

I don't see anything difficult with double breeding save that, to have a full line, one would treat one breed a bit like two breeds. I think nowadays many folks are so busy trying to have six and seven breeds that they've yet to engage in specialization. Moreover, I think that the general awareness of poultry breeding had plummeted so thoroughly into oblivion toward the end of the 20th century. The new rise in keeping chickens is also eventuating a return of proper breeding in poultry, which will, I'm certain, take a decade or more. All of these conversations we've been having on these threads here are only adding to a knowledge base that, expanding, will encourage breeders to relearn important aspects of breeding such as double mating, etc.. It's all rather positive.

In the meantime, though, and, perhaps, part of the process, we go through phases, such as the rise and eventual fall of all of the poorly developed and redundant fetish varieties offered by Greenfire Farms and the like.

 

[fowlman01]

I like "Fetish" varieties .....lolol

Most of what GF sells are not even good examples of the breed. I suppose the imports are from lesser breeders or they just aren't buying from the right people. I don't know. The Cream Legbars from GF have about 3 different colors that I have seen so far. GF mentioned in one of their newsletters that there should be no Standard for these chickens. If I was selling odds and ends I wouldn't want a Standard either. They perform a service and fill a niche however so .......good for them.

Walt

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I like "Fetish" varieties .....lolol

Most of what GF sells are not even good examples of the breed. I suppose the imports are from lesser breeders or they just aren't buying from the right people. I don't know. The Cream Legbars from GF have about 3 different colors that I have seen so far. GF mentioned in one of their newsletters that there should be no Standard for these chickens. If I was selling odds and ends I wouldn't want a Standard either. They perform a service and fill a niche however so .......good for them.

Walt

Indeed, someone must be the source for RC Booted Porcelaine Rockbars....wait a minute there...I might have just found my retirement fund! I call COPYRIGHT!

 

[hallerlake]

Quote: I'm not an expert Lord knows, but I thought I was supposed to breed my best of both sexes. The idea of breeding inferior birds for the sake of shows troubles me. It seems like putting style over substance. I realize it's not the breeders' fault if the show standards have put them in this position.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I'm not an expert Lord knows, but I thought I was supposed to breed my best of both sexes. The idea of breeding inferior birds for the sake of shows troubles me. It seems like putting style over substance. I realize it's not the breeders' fault if the show standards have put them in this position.

It's not that simple. Colorwise, for example, some breeds have a smutty middle ground so that if one breeds the best marked male with the best marked female, one ends up with inferiorly marked offspring or variably marked offspring, and if the pattern is variable, ranging a whole spectrum of possible options, how can one say which is the best out of a class? Thus, eventually Standards were established for each gender, setting the style to the substance. It was also done, though, at a time of a different poultry climate than exists now. There were far more breeders as opposed to chicken collectors, and breeders per force will specialize. Thus if one were to specialize in Golden-Pencilled Hampburgs, for example, double breeding wasn't a big deal, and substance and production can be maintained through a double mating program. It just requires specialization.

 

[BKPUCKETT]

I'm not an expert Lord knows, but I thought I was supposed to breed my best of both sexes. The idea of breeding inferior birds for the sake of shows troubles me. It seems like putting style over substance. I realize it's not the breeders' fault if the show standards have put them in this position.

Well said