Old Fashioned Broody Hen Hatch A Long and Informational Thread

[bumpercarr]

Thank you for the clarifications...Yes...exactly...sorry if I didn't make that clear...blue or white is the shell color...brown is a tint added further in the egg tract that applied over white gives brown eggs...over blue gives green eggs...and then of course there is the antimicrobial bloom that can also have a tint to further distinguish the coloring...for that elusive but for some desirable purple egg...my goal.

Yes...those Punnett squares...I remember them from Biology and will have to sit down and play with them.

That article link finally cleared in my head the meaning of the little letter and big letter....recessive/dominant.


and yes...the 2 genes for shell base color...then the genes for whether or not there is a brown tint applied (I think I read as many as 13 can play into that)...then I assume genes for any tint in the bloom....and which parent is recessive or dominant carrier of what.

And then....there are the FEATHER COLOR GENETICS.

Thank you for your confirmation and clarification. Slowly, slowly, this stuff is seeping into my head.

Lady of McCamley

Ah, feather color genetics.....my favorite topic right along with feather patterns. I don't really consider myself and expert, but let me know if you need help understanding anything. I've been doing some really extensive research on the subject.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Ah, feather color genetics.....my favorite topic right along with feather patterns. I don't really consider myself and expert, but let me know if you need help understanding anything. I've been doing some really extensive research on the subject.

Aw...thank you master-san

I appreciate the offer and will definitely keep that on file as I will need all the help I can get.

I plan to try to get my head around egg color first, and with that knowledge attempt to get a flock of the diversified colors I want, in particular that purple egg (like REALLY, wouldn't THAT be cool to have in your egg basket with olive green, dark brown, ice blue and white)...Egg color, I understand, is the easiest genetics to grasp, and my immediate goal.

At this time, it is research only as I am not set up to do any sort of breeding program....but someday I would like to be able to start to breed my own birds and develop some characteristics I would like (in keeping with the spirit of Nettie Metcalf...the woman who developed the Buckeye breed).

Lady of McCamley

 

[Kaylish]

Well I now have 3 very happy 1st time broodies set up in the apartment. Eggs are due to hatch in 10 days...this is either going to be adorably awesome or a complete disaster.

 

[sktlmt]

Good Luck! How many eggs are under the 3 girls?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Well I now have 3 very happy 1st time broodies set up in the apartment. Eggs are due to hatch in 10 days...this is either going to be adorably awesome or a complete disaster.

Hoping for a great success.

Lady of McCamley

 

[A6chickenhome]

I was hoping someone who has really good egg genetics would answer...so I will try, and if I am wrong, then hopefully someone will correct me.

As I understand it...brown plus white will generally give brown as brown is dominant. (???)

IF one of the parents has one of the blue genes (and I think there are 2 blue genes)....then blue parent plus brown parent will give you 50% brown and 50% green...more or less.

IF one of the parents has both blue genes....then blue parent plus brown parent will produce 100% green????

IF one of the parents has both blue genes...then blue parent plus white parent will produce shades of blue....100% ???? As blue is dominant (?)

IF one of the parents is a very dark brown layer (like a Marans or Welsummer)...then dark brown parent plus blue parent will give you the Olive Green shades. If you breed that first generation back, you get darker green shades.

That is assuming there are no other genetics hidden as it takes genes for the egg shell which is either white or blue, then genes to produce the tint which supplies the tinting over the base color. Brown tint over blue shell produces green shades. Clear/white tint over blue shell produces blue shades. Brown tint over white shell produces brown and various beige shades. Clear/white tint over white shell produces white shades.

Then there is even a tint in the bloom in some hens...the bloom is the antimicrobial coating added at the last to ward off germs...that can change things even further and produce "purplish" eggs or "grey" eggs.

Okay...please if I am wrong someone correct me as I want to get this down in my head too...but that is what I have gleaned thus far.

Lady of McCamley

EDITED TO ADD: I found this article that explains things in pretty easy language and appears to be in depth and accurate, and endorsed by the Chicken Chick:
https://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/gms1-genetics-of-egg-color/

EDITED FURTHER TO ADD:  If you keep working through the mini-series on egg genetics, section 3, Scratch Cradle shows a photo of almost hot pink Croad Langshan eggs as the 'ideal" color for Croads, but the left photo of the brown tints with some pinkish tan, from my research, appears to be the reality...Croads have been exaggerated lately as having a purple egg (which I would LOVE to have), but that is not normal for them...they are actually a brown egg layer, originally a dark brown layer that was instrumental in developing Marans. Some are breeding for purple eggs with Croads, but think plum not the hot pink shown in the photo (which appears to have been removed from the uk site). Some Croads appear to have a tint in the bloom when applied over a brown egg gives a purplish/plum hue. Some mutts and EE's will do that too.  I would absolutely LOVE to get a purple egg layer, hence my trying to understand egg genetics.

Thanks Lady of McCamley and Bumpercarr,
So my Legbar Rooster crossed with an Austrolorp hen will most likely produce a green egg layer? The only thing I'm not clear on is whether the Roos have both blue genes? That's a great article!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Thanks Lady of McCamley and Bumpercarr,
So my Legbar Rooster crossed with an Austrolorp hen will most likely produce a green egg layer? The only thing I'm not clear on is whether the Roos have both blue genes? That's a great article!

I'm not sure of the genetics of Legbars...I assume your are speaking of the Creasted Cream Legbar. I think they must be likely a 2 gene blue as I do know the commercial industry is beginning to use them to produce Olive Eggers in replace of an Ameraucana or Araucana, who are dominant blue.

Each parent will carry 2 genes regarding whether it is blue shell or white shell. Blue is dominant and OO. White is recessive and oo. It doesn't matter (mostly) which parent has the blue genes as the mixing works the same (although I read somewhere that roo's do carry some genes which are more dominant, but I don't know if that applied to egg shell but may have been to comb or something).

So, if we make the assumption that your Legbar is OO and your BA is oo, doing the Punnet square (oh dear, back to high school biology for me)....wouldn't that produce 100% shades of green as you would always have at least 1 blue gene in each pairing (taking the O from the roo and the o from the BA).

And yes, that breaks down if the Legbar is oO....then you get 50% brown, 50% green.

Either way...that would work for only the first generation as the green laying pullets would be oO with the brown tint genes from the BA to produce green. Add that factor to another bird, depending upon the bird, and you increase the Punnet math combinations possible for non-green, blue, white, brown, etc. depending upon who you bred the green-bearing roo or the green-laying pullet.

My best guess.
Lady of McCamley

 

[Kaylish]

Good Luck! How many eggs are under the 3 girls? 

2 have 6 each and 1 has 5 (total of 17), they should have no problems covering them or keeping the chicks warm enough. I also have another 13 in the incubator.

Hoping for a great success.

Lady of McCamley

Thanks!

 

[vpatt]

Three new chicks today! I peeped under the hen to be sure what was going on.....one egg was left...the one I was pretty sure a dud....it belonged to Ebony the banty and it was unfertilized. So two are Doms and one is from the Dom rooster and the RSL girl. AND...i think Ebony is going broody! I wonder if the Phoenix breed is prone to go broody? I guess ill go check that out.

Should i put some water and chick starter out this afternoon?

I love it! Wish I could play with them, lol.

 

[bumpercarr]

I'm not sure of the genetics of Legbars...I assume your are speaking of the Creasted Cream Legbar. I think they must be likely a 2 gene blue as I do know the commercial industry is beginning to use them to produce Olive Eggers in replace of an Ameraucana or Araucana, who are dominant blue.

Each parent will carry 2 genes regarding whether it is blue shell or white shell. Blue is dominant and OO. White is recessive and oo. It doesn't matter (mostly) which parent has the blue genes as the mixing works the same (although I read somewhere that roo's do carry some genes which are more dominant, but I don't know if that applied to egg shell but may have been to comb or something).

So, if we make the assumption that your Legbar is OO and your BA is oo, doing the Punnet square (oh dear, back to high school biology for me)....wouldn't that produce 100% shades of green as you would always have at least 1 blue gene in each pairing (taking the O from the roo and the o from the BA).

And yes, that breaks down if the Legbar is oO....then you get 50% brown, 50% green.

Either way...that would work for only the first generation as the green laying pullets would be oO with the brown tint genes from the BA to produce green. Add that factor to another bird, depending upon the bird, and you increase the Punnet math combinations possible for non-green, blue, white, brown, etc. depending upon who you bred the green-bearing roo or the green-laying pullet.

My best guess.
Lady of McCamley

Because blue is a dominant gene, only one copy is necessary for blue eggs, so the original breeding chicken could have Oo or OO blue genes if they lay blue eggs. The only way to tell if they are Oo or OO is to test breed....breed to a white egg layer. If all of the resulting pullets lay blue (or green if you have the brown covering gene) then the first was OO, if half lay white (or brown) and half lay blue (or green), then the original was an Oo. Hope that makes sense. You can do the same test breeding for any of the traits that you are trying to either enhance or eliminate, provided that the gene is dominant (only requires one copy) and not recessive (needs two copies to exhibit). Some of the genes that are dominant - pea and rose combs, five toes, feather footed, blue eggs, blue feather color (interesting things happen with two copies of the blue feather gene). There are a whole host of others, if you look on the chicken calculator there is a section that talks about dominant genes vs. recessive genes for chickens.

I usually don't breed the results of test breedings, the genes are mixed up and it would require extensive work to get rid of the wrong genes. So, they are usually the ones that I sell or cull as soon as I know the results of the test.

Just some thoughts