Please help, I don't really know what I'm doing.

[ZachyWachy]

Hi, I'm wanting to get into breeding chickens, but I've never tried anything outside of casually letting by broodies hatch whatever eggs they found. I can order some American white Bresse chicks, but kind of want to try crossing them with something that grows bigger.

I'm looking to keep the meat flavoring but get a larger and potentially faster growing bird. Cold hardy is necessary as I live in Northern Utah. I would also love to try to have some good foragers that lay decently well.

Should I use Bresse hens or a bresse rooster? I'm only planning on one breeding pen for now. I really am just looking for experience here but I may be able to increase the project if it takes off.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I'm looking to keep the meat flavoring but get a larger and potentially faster growing bird

The alleged flavor comes from the finishing conditions coupled with age of harvest not the breed itself. Same reason the "french" Marans was so reputed for it's meat. When not finished in that manner, meh. potato.. potato. I'd choose Rocks or Wyandotte or ANY other heritage breed (with broader genetic variability) that was in the size range and egg production level I'd like to achieve. Rose or pea combs are more cold tolerant than straight but straight can also be okay.

None are as good in reality as they're made out to be on paper, in MY experience. They all taste like chicken once you get into heritage breeds.

 

[Mantisquailman]

If you want a big chicken then get a jersey giant, but they do take a while to get to their
full size (roos get up to 15 pounds!)

 

[gtaus]

I have no experience with breeding chickens. I have been happy with the breeds I buy. But good for you for wanting to improve your stock. Hope you are successful!

 

[ZachyWachy]

The alleged flavor comes from the finishing conditions coupled with age of harvest not the breed itself. Same reason the "french" Marans was so reputed for it's meat. When not finished in that manner, meh. potato.. potato. I'd choose Rocks or Wyandotte or ANY other heritage breed (with broader genetic variability) that was in the size range and egg production level I'd like to achieve. Rose or pea combs are more cold tolerant than straight but straight can also be okay.

None are as good in reality as they're made out to be on paper, in MY experience. They all taste like chicken once you get into heritage breeds.

EggSighted4Life, what is that process?

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Fattening sheds is the process. It's illegal. Modified to something more humane means highly restricted movement and fed a fat rich diet. There is nothing special about the breeds, it's the process of preparing for butcher the French used. All of the French birds are said to be exquisite flavor and that has nothing to do with genetics.

Buckeye would be a good choice for a cold hearty general purpose heritage bird. If white feathers are your preference then Wyandotte comes in that variety. Chantecler from eastern Canada are also white.

Jersey Giants were a failed attempt at opening a new market to compete with turkey. It didn't take off and the breed would have gone by with the Dodo had it not been created just prior to the conservancy movement.

 

[ZachyWachy]

Fattening sheds is the process. It's illegal. Modified to something more humane means highly restricted movement and fed a fat rich diet. There is nothing special about the breeds, it's the process of preparing for butcher the French used. All of the French birds are said to be exquisite flavor and that has nothing to do with genetics.

Buckeye would be a good choice for a cold hearty general purpose heritage bird. If white feathers are your preference then Wyandotte comes in that variety. Chantecler from eastern Canada are also white.

Jersey Giants were a failed attempt at opening a new market to compete with turkey. It didn't take off and the breed would have gone by with the Dodo had it not been created just prior to the conservancy movement.

That's good to know. I've looked at buckeyes before and liked the idea of getting them. How would you suggest I set about creating a breeding program? What should I look for in a breeding rooster and his hens?

 

[skeeeter]

Hi, get access to a copy of Standard Of Perfection. also, going to the poultry shows and fairs helps you get an idea of what you are shooting for.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

No matter what breed you need to find a source that has good stock. Look to see the parent stock is wide from shoulders to tail and wide tail set. Wide heads are a great indicator. That's the basis for all American class dual purpose birds.

Assessment of meat qualities
https://livestockconservancy.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ALBCchicken_assessment-1.pdf

Chart for grading birds used in Buckeye improvement. Head width, depth of bird, width of bird, etc.

https://livestockconservancy.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Buckeye-Chick-Assessment-form.pdf

 

[NatJ]

How would you suggest I set about creating a breeding program? What should I look for in a breeding rooster and his hens?

If you want to raise purebreds, look for the traits that are correct for the breed. But if you are wanting to make mixes rather than purebreds, look for the traits you want to add to your chickens. You may even prefer traits that are "wrong" for the breed in question (I know of someone that was happy to get a single-comb Wyandotte: wrong for the breed, but right for their hot-climate breeding project.)

If you want small combs (reduced risk of frostbite), look for pea combs or rose combs or cushion/strawberry/walnut combs. Basically, anything that isn't a single comb. Or even consider single combs that are small, but avoid the big ones like Leghorns have.

If you want them for meat, look for nice meaty chickens. Pick them up to see how they feel, check for plenty of meat in the breast and leg/thigh areas, put them on a scale to see how much they really weigh. Do not be fooled by fluffy feathers on a skinny body, pick them up and/or weigh them to learn what is really under there. Dark Cornish (and other colors of purebred Cornish chickens) are an example of a chicken that is heavy and compact and has quite a bit of meat, but can look "small" because the feathers are close to the body and not fluffy. English Orpingtons are an example of chickens that have fluffy feathers and look much bigger than other chickens of the same actual weight.

You probably want hens that lay a reasonable number of eggs (so you have plenty of eggs to hatch.) You want a rooster that mates effectively with hens. Excessive fluffiness can interfere with mating (some Cochins and Orpingtons are known for needing their butts trimmed). A rooster with an enormous breast can have trouble mating, and one that is just too fat or lazy is not going to mate much either.

Consider how fast you want them to grow. Some of the Dual Purpose breeds are selected to grow quickly at an early age, so however much meat you are going to get, you can get it sooner (examples: Plymouth Rock of any color but especially the white ones, Delaware, many others of the traditional dual purpose breeds.) Some breeds are selected to get very big, but they may take a long time to get there (examples: Jersey Giant, Brahma). Some breeds are selected to have an especially meaty body, but may also grow slowly (example: purebred Cornish chickens.) Some hybrids are selected to grow very fast to a large size, but then have health problems as a result (Cornish Cross chickens, the most common meat hybrid, are an extreme example of this.)

Think about whether color matters to you. Some people want white chickens for meat, because white pinfeathers are not as visible as dark colored pinfeathers. Some colored chickens have light pinfeathers too (example: most Buffs.) Some people don't care what color the pinfeathers are, they want chickens of a color that is less visible to predators (almost anything except pure white, with brown shades and various patterns being popular.) Some people want chickens that look pretty to them, because the feather color has no actual effect on how the chicken tastes or grows. The "prettiest" color & pattern is a personal choice, because everyone likes different things.

Think about whether egg color matters. Some people like colorful eggs. Some people want light-colored eggs because they are easier to candle during incubation (very dark eggs like the ones laid by Marans can be almost impossible to candle, so any infertile eggs just sit in the incubator taking up space because you can't tell.) Some people just don't care what color the eggs are, which can be a reasonable choice if you want to focus on meat traits.

Regarding the various breed traits, a hatchery will usually have chickens that sort-of resemble the right breed but may not be quite right. In general, as compared with the official breed descriptions, you will probably find that hatchery chickens lay more eggs and go broody less often, but they do not grow as big or have as much meat. Feather colors and patterns may be a bit off too, and comb type and skin color are sometimes wrong. A GOOD private breeder should have chickens that do show the correct traits, while some "breeders" started with hatchery stock and haven't improved it, so their birds are about the same quality as you could get from a hatchery. In practice, even a good breeder will be focusing on some traits more than others, and they may not be the traits you care about. If they have nice meaty chickens with beautiful feathers and the correct comb type, they may have chickens that would win prizes in shows. But if those chickens grow slowly and lay very few eggs, they may not be the best choice for producing meat for you. Or they might be a very good choice, if you want that body type and intend to cross with other chickens to add the other traits you want.

Sometimes it can work well to make a hybrid of your own. For example, you might use a White Rock hen (lays quite a few eggs, and matures quickly) with a Cornish rooster (large breast, but slower growing and not such a good layer.) The chicks can have a bigger breast than pure Rocks and grow faster than pure Cornish. Hybrid vigor (from crossing two different breeds) also helps them grow a bit bigger and faster. This cross is actually the basis for the commercial Cornish Cross, sometimes called Rock Cornish or Cornish Rock cross. But if you start with pure breeds and cross them, you will not get the extreme growth of the commercial ones, because you haven't put in the many generations of selective breeding to get the extreme traits. You will just get chicks that grow a bit better than either parent breed. But to do this long-term would require that you have pure stock of the father breed and the mother breed, which means at least three breeding flocks (father, mother, mix), or else buy more chickens at regular intervals (new father-breed and new mother-breed to make the mixes.)