Pumpkin Hulsey Color Genetics?

[centrarchid]

This is probably not the best way to organize but will serve as an initial reference.

The following birds I think are all homozygous for pattern allele (pg). When on e+ the females have rusty shoulders and males have rusty colored crescents on an otherwise black breast and generally look like wild type.

The following birds also carry at least one copy of what plays out like a recessive version of wheaten, but it is not wheaten. The "recessive wheaton" interacts strongly with pattern allele.

This cockerel likely was homozygous for both pattern gene and recessive wheaten. This guy was lost to a great horned owl a few weeks ago so can not be used to test breed.

Stag on left homozygous for pattern allele and heterozygous for recessive wheaten. Pullet is homozygous for both.

Same pullet.

Cockerel, full sibling to all above, that is homozygous for both like brother shown in first image. Next spring I will breed this guy to three of his sisters that all look like the one above. If I am correct, then all offspring will look roughly like these birds.

Notice vein color in tails of all my birds. All have at least some black. Proper pumpkin birds the pumpkin color even in the flight feather of the tail. Mine have a colored stripe at best on sickles of males.

 

[Rujzin]

When you say pg, are we talking laced? I have had a few red laced Cubas hatching out that I attributed to another rooster I have that is blue and should carry lacing. But in hindsight, none of the chicks that had lacing were blues.

Here is a quick shot I found on the computer of one of the cockrels and one of the pullets. This particular pullet has a lot less white on her han her mother and her siblings. But if I remember correctly, she started out with more white/light coloration and darkened over time.

 

[Henk69]

Why Pg?

 

[centrarchid]

Why Pg?

Crossing mine with Db gives red quill.

 

[Henk69]

Crossing mine with Db gives red quill.

What breed/color is considered to be Db here?

O, and what color is the underfluff/down in these wheaten based animals?

 

[centrarchid]

Working in American Game stock with history of producing red quill color variant, not Red Quill line.

Db hen below has chocolate colored with yellowish belly at hatch.

crossed with

Brown-breasted Brown Red that is het for "recessive wheaton". Note in quotes. See hen below thought to be homozygous for "recessive wheaton". This at hatch was chipmunk with narrow stripe relative to wild type. He and females of same genotype have very strong barring on flight feathers of sets 1 and 2. Males drop barring in third set as they transition to adult coloration. Barring gone by fourth feather set. My birds go though 4 feather sets prior to first adult set which in male side distinguishable from subsequent sets as well. They also undergo eclipse molt.

Yields down coloration on lower right which is het for Db and Pg which matures into lighter red quill pattern. Homozygote for Db yields darker red quill pattern with chicks loosing all hints of dorsal stripe..

Hen I think to be homozygote for "recessive wheaton". Adult coloration simply a blanched e+. Down coloration slightly lighter chipmunk rather than nearly solid yellow of proper wheaton. Down coloration gray rather than white. Wheaton to my eye distinguishable even in adult males, females really easy.

Reason for assigning "recessive wheaton" is how the pattern interacts with other mutations, especially silver (S). Buttermilk females arise that are indistinguishable from e^wh _ S_.


Computer too slow to allow uploading images in reasonable time frame. I have been doing test matings for better than 10 years to work out what I have. They not likely proper pumpkins which many game fowl guys will likely attest to. More than one genotype combination capable of generating it among game fowl.

I am also seeing something foot coloration that may give insight into what is going on.

 

[Henk69]

The first hen could be e^b. The second hen could be a het wheaten but missing red on the shoulders/wing (pale breast)
There is a documented recessive wheaten e^y. That is not what you mean, right?

Any lighter "pumpkin" males?

 

[centrarchid]

The first hen could be e^b. The second hen could be a het wheaten but missing red on the shoulders/wing (pale breast)
There is a documented recessive wheaten e^y. That is not what you mean, right?

Any lighter "pumpkin" males?

I do not know if mine is e^y; known's needed for comparison. The e^b does not match well on down coloration and not at all on adult male. The male version of brown hen is very close to a brown red. It is very possible two mutations involved with the brown hen, with the second being the "recessive wheaton".

I have had proper wheatons in the past.


It is getting to be a major bother getting images organised for up loading.

 

[centrarchid]

FEMALE SIDE
Pg/Pg without "recessive wheaton". Note intensive barring on wings and a little on tail.

Same hen harassed by Great-horned Owl.

Pg_ without "recessive wheaton". Weak barring on secondaries barely visible. Rusty color on breast east to see. Mahogany color on more than shoulder patch.

Pg/Pg and het for "recessive wheaton". Barring on wings, tail and back very evident. Pattern on back lost without "recessive wheaton" operating.

Top view of hen 1. She represents the lighter end of spectrum indicating yet other factors involved.

Lateral aspect of same hen.

Hen 2 is darker end of spectrum. Birds are separated by about 4 years in time.

Pg/Pg "recessive wheaton" / "recessive wheaton"

Pullet in previous post to keep all together.

Second pullet that is a little darker with weaker pattern on back. She looks almost wheaton except for pattern and tail.

Third with intense pattern on back and less rusty color overall.
She may be het for "recessive wheaton", test mating needed to determine.

At one time I referred to the allele causing the lighter pattern as "blanch" as on the wild-type the birds looked blanched.

 

[Enigmatic Gale]

Any and all information about this, even if it's over my head, would be greatly appreciated. I have been playing around with the color for a while in my Cubalayas. The initial cross to get it in the flock was with wheaten/pumpkin hens that looked like wheatens streaked with white. Those were put under a BB Red (Wheaten) Cubalaya rooster.

From this crossing, I've had a few cockrels with the Pumpkin coloring and pullets that look like their mother.

Were you able to isolate the pumpkin color?