Pumpkin Hulsey Color Genetics?

[Henk69]

e locus
classic hencolored wheaten

 

[Poultriary]

Yes e^wh sorry.

But the first photo of this thread has a hen that has what I associate with the "classic" wheaten coloration, although she is mostly obscured by the cock's tail.This is what one typically sees in PH hens, but they also throw birds of both genders that are all or nearly all white, white streamers etc. That appear to be more of a "splash/sport" effect or than true white or a washed out wheaten.

 

[Poultriary]

Of course, I should keep in mind that the Dutch and US standard descriptions for wheaten may not be the same.

 

[Poultriary]

Anyhow, this is what I consider to be a "classic" Wheaten. She was from a line of pumpkin mini-games from Rocky Top Game Farm in Mississippi, USA.


She is mother to this F1 cross with a Silver Duckwing American Game Bantam.

Now, is what is going on in the whitish areas of the above photos the work of the wheaten gene? I don't know for sure it's not, but what I do know is that I've seen clear evidence that there is a black dilution gene involved. The avatar photo I use is a cross between a red quill Amercian Game Bantam and what appears to be one of the whitish hens from the same Rocky Top line of pumpkin mini-games. If I don't have a photo of his dam, I still have her and can go get one this morning to post up.

 

[TShelton54]

Yes I have seen Cream Red Quill. There was one at the Old English Nationals in Dalton last November. She came directly from a line of Red Quills.l

 

[Poultriary]

No, this is a classic hencolored wheaten.

Not sure why it didn't occur to me earlier, but these are not "classic hencolored wheatens" at all. All three are photos of dubbed cocks. On the areas that appear white on the upper and lower photos would be predominantly black, except for the wing bows and bays, on a wheaten cock.

Interestingly, I believe this is the only time I've ever seen you two (Henk & Marvin) not agree on what genotype is behind a particular phenotype. For being near about 9,000 Km apart, you two generally seem to be joined at the hip.

 

[Henk69]

It is henny colored. Most wheaten hens are red enhanced, if they weren't they would look like him.

 

[Poultriary]

You know, I'm sure there's the occasional chicken with some funky hormonal thing going on, but my general experience and observation is that "henny colored" goes with "henny feathered", but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that. Pumpkin Hulseys are not Hennies (though there are probably Pumpkin Hennies around somewhere). That top bird certainly has sickle feathers and is not hen feathered. You might make a case for that bottom one, but I'm guessing it's just still fairly young in this photo, < 6 months. Wheaten alone just doesn't seem to explain it, in my opinion.

Although I agree that one cannot get a bird that looks like these without wheaten, there's more to it, and from my own outcrossing between a Pumpkin sport female to both a Red Quill and a Silver Duckwing, there is at least one incompletely dominant dilution gene involved. I think if we had some information on the occurence of the light colored variants in Pumpkin Hulsey populations, that would tell us a lot, but I do not have enough of them, nor room for them, to run that experiment.

It would be helpful to get some input from some people who raise a significant number of PHs to see what kind of ratios these light colored variants show up in. Is it 1 in 4, 1 in 8, 1 in 16? That would help a great deal in resolving the question.

Anyhow, thanks for your efforts here, Henk, I've learned a lot from you and Marvin both.

 

[Henk69]

I am isolating such a henny coloring factor at the moment myself.
It may be the one in pumpkin too.
It causes male stippling/peppering in one dose already (Hf is said to take 2 doses for henny coloring).
Think mealy grey game.

 

[catdaddyfro]

You know, I'm sure there's the occasional chicken with some funky hormonal thing going on, but my general experience and observation is that "henny colored" goes with "henny feathered", but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that. Pumpkin Hulseys are not Hennies (though there are probably Pumpkin Hennies around somewhere). That top bird certainly has sickle feathers and is not hen feathered. You might make a case for that bottom one, but I'm guessing it's just still fairly young in this photo, < 6 months. Wheaten alone just doesn't seem to explain it, in my opinion.

Although I agree that one cannot get a bird that looks like these without wheaten, there's more to it, and from my own outcrossing between a Pumpkin sport female to both a Red Quill and a Silver Duckwing, there is at least one incompletely dominant dilution gene involved. I think if we had some information on the occurence of the light colored variants in Pumpkin Hulsey populations, that would tell us a lot, but I do not have enough of them, nor room for them, to run that experiment.

It would be helpful to get some input from some people who raise a significant number of PHs to see what kind of ratios these light colored variants show up in. Is it 1 in 4, 1 in 8, 1 in 16? That would help a great deal in resolving the question.

Anyhow, thanks for your efforts here, Henk, I've learned a lot from you and Marvin both.

In Eroupe I know in Brittan Black-breasted Reds(ie wheaton) are called hennys(henny colored) has nothing to do with the sex feathers in males at all like in th U.S.. I think this is where the confusion lies J/S I shall go back to lurking again.

Jeff