Safeguard and Feather Damage While Molting

[bdfive]

Regarding worming in water Kathy, it must work because I've not had a worm problem in the 10 years I've had peafowl. I know a breeder that has used the method for 20 years with no worms. We do it every 6 months and all has been well. Many many use this procedure with Safeguard and Ivermectin. I don't think I saw anything mentioned about using the Wazine first to kill and remove the load of roundworms so the birds systems aren't overwhelmed dealing with dead worms. There is a lot of information on BYC I've read and now do that with my growing peachicks. The peafowl drink the dosed water for 3 days. Larger birds drink more therefore get more wormer, smaller birds drink less so aren't overdosed although I've read there is a lot of room for mistake in Safeguard and Ivermectin. If I were to put it in food they wouldn't each get an even amount due to some being food aggressive. NO WAY can I worm them individually. Even trying to give them wormer on a piece of bread would be difficult. Trying it in the past some don't like the wormer, don't eat the bread and another bird will grab it that's already been dosed. Keeping tract of those treated and not treated is difficult. For now I'll stick with what's been working for me. Do intend to keep tract of this thread in case wormer in water someday fails. Thanks much for all your time and information.

 

[zazouse]

Perhaps having lots of worms in your soil would make a difference as to how much and how often they should be wormed,
Only time i have ever seen worms in an animal at my place is after bring them home like the last pup i purchased she was said to be clear of worms from the vets office the day before i brought her home, since i was worming all the other animals she got wormed also and she was full of worms and tape worms also, i ran around this yard for a week picking up her poo and covering the area with lime , she hasn't had worms since and she is 1.5 years old.

 

[bdfive]

Hello Zazouse, I had a heck of a time earlier today while adding sand to dirt in the 1,400 sq ft aviary in an area where the peafowl take dirt baths. Each time I add sand, dirt, DE or ash I dig it deeper and wider taking out rocks. We've had a lot of rain and one of my pet peafowl I love dearly was eating earthworms as they were being unearthed. I tried to hide them but he was intent to get them all. Was saying to myself that he's going to get a good dose of wormer. We have a cool front coming in tomorrow night here about 30 miles north of San Antonio so intend to worm due to not having to keep the vessels of water out for the peafowl to stand in to cool off. Don't want to put wormer in them too. Hoping I have enough Ivermectin to accomplish the 3 day worming and again in 10 to 14 days. I doubt that will take care of those worms he ate in case he's affected by them so will worm just him again with wormer in mashed sweet potatoes in about another month. They love sweet potatoes and it's a food super nutritious for them. I look at poo all the time from peafowl and dogs and have never seen worms but I'm big on maintenance. I'm giving my 2 Mini Aussies Sentinel and they are checked for parasites regularly at vets.

Nice chatting with you again! (-:

 

[Trefoil]

Thanks for the info. I've been doing the 3ml in water for safeguard and pour on ivermectin. Have been having good fecal tests, and my vet told me my routine was working. And now i'm freaking out because I've probably just been lucky. Can the formula (Weight of flock in pounds divided by 2.2, times 50, divided by 100.The answer to that is the number of ml safeguard needed for your flock.) be used for a mixed flock of ducks & geese?

 

[casportpony]

Thanks for the info.  I've been doing the 3ml in water for safeguard and pour on ivermectin.  Have been having good fecal tests,  and my vet told me my routine was working.  And now i'm freaking out because I've probably just been lucky. Can the formula (Weight of flock in pounds divided by 2.2, times 50, divided by 100.The answer to that is the number of ml safeguard needed for your flock.) be used for a mixed flock of ducks & geese?

That formula can be used for all poultry that are susceptible to capillary worms. Geese also get gizzard worms and it probably takes care of those, too.

-Kathy

 

[Trefoil]

This article may be of interest. Its about a study done in , I think India, comparing 3 different wormers, it was done on chickens.
http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-industry/health/articles/anthelmintics-poultry-t1660/165-p0.htm
The methodology is a little sloppy, but still, food for thought/

 

[MinxFox]

Regarding worming in water Kathy, it must work because I've not had a worm problem in the 10 years I've had peafowl. I know a breeder that has used the method for 20 years with no worms. We do it every 6 months and all has been well. Many many use this procedure with Safeguard and Ivermectin. I don't think I saw anything mentioned about using the Wazine first to kill and remove the load of roundworms so the birds systems aren't overwhelmed dealing with dead worms. There is a lot of information on BYC I've read and now do that with my growing peachicks. The peafowl drink the dosed water for 3 days. Larger birds drink more therefore get more wormer, smaller birds drink less so aren't overdosed although I've read there is a lot of room for mistake in Safeguard and Ivermectin. If I were to put it in food they wouldn't each get an even amount due to some being food aggressive. NO WAY can I worm them individually. Even trying to give them wormer on a piece of bread would be difficult. Trying it in the past some don't like the wormer, don't eat the bread and another bird will grab it that's already been dosed. Keeping tract of those treated and not treated is difficult. For now I'll stick with what's been working for me. Do intend to keep tract of this thread in case wormer in water someday fails. Thanks much for all your time and information.

I do like giving it to them in the water. I guess I will try it in water and in the food. I was worried about overwhelming bird's systems with dead worms though especially since I am going from 3cc a day to 17cc a day. I just want all of them to be okay. I only have 7 peafowl and they all mean so much to me. I understand that safeguard is safe, but I was thinking that doesn't mean that the worm die off would be safe. What do you all think am I just being too worried? I don't think my birds are loaded with worms but I am just weird about trying a new way of treatment. So KsKingBee, you have already done (or almost finished) this new treatment right? If all of your birds are doing well then I will treat mine this way and hope all goes well.

 

[KsKingBee]

I do like giving it to them in the water. I guess I will try it in water and in the food. I was worried about overwhelming bird's systems with dead worms though especially since I am going from 3cc a day to 17cc a day. I just want all of them to be okay. I only have 7 peafowl and they all mean so much to me. I understand that safeguard is safe, but I was thinking that doesn't mean that the worm die off would be safe. What do you all think am I just being too worried? I don't think my birds are loaded with worms but I am just weird about trying a new way of treatment. So KsKingBee, you have already done (or almost finished) this new treatment right? If all of your birds are doing well then I will treat mine this way and hope all goes well.

I think it is also important to remember that my vet believes that some of the ineffectiveness stems from my hard water issue as well as from not using a sufficient amount of Safeguard to weight of birds. Also the birds not drinking the water is another issue in itself. I have only lost one peachick to roundworms, a chick that had been treated with the 3cc per gal for five days and again a week later. I do not remember how much time had passed between that 'worming' and the worming in the food, but there should not have been that many worms if the 3cc per gal treatment worked. According to my vet who researched recommended dosages from the manufacturer the 3cc per gallon could 'not' work effectually and there could also be an issue of resistance to the drug from using too little.

To BDfives point, I have a friend that has had peas for fifteen to twenty years and has never treated any of them, ever, for anything. He also has chickens, swans, guineas, and a lot of pigeons and has not had any worm issues. He thinks that it is because of the DE he has put in his special food made up by the local coop. I tend to think that he is just lucky, I know of no other reason for his good fortune. Also when giving the birds all they can eat at one setting the smaller birds and the ones that are lower on the pecking order will be given a chance to eat after the larger birds and the higher order birds have had their fill. Bigger birds need more and smaller birds need less, it is all according to weight.

Minx, I would assure you that the information my vet and what you have seen posted by Kathy is completely safe for your birds, and you should feel confident that your birds have gotten the proper amount of the drug to insure that they do not have any worms at the end of the treatment period. I will report to you the findings of the fecal exam we plan on doing four days after this worming.

 

[DylansMom]

I think it is also important to remember that my vet believes that some of the ineffectiveness stems from my hard water issue as well as from not using a sufficient amount of Safeguard to weight of birds. Also the birds not drinking the water is another issue in itself. I have only lost one peachick to roundworms, a chick that had been treated with the 3cc per gal for five days and again a week later. I do not remember how much time had passed between that 'worming' and the worming in the food, but there should not have been that many worms if the 3cc per gal treatment worked. According to my vet who researched recommended dosages from the manufacturer the 3cc per gallon could 'not' work effectually and there could also be an issue of resistance to the drug from using too little.

To BDfives point, I have a friend that has had peas for fifteen to twenty years and has never treated any of them, ever, for anything. He also has chickens, swans, guineas, and a lot of pigeons and has not had any worm issues. He thinks that it is because of the DE he has put in his special food made up by the local coop. I tend to think that he is just lucky, I know of no other reason for his good fortune. Also when giving the birds all they can eat at one setting the smaller birds and the ones that are lower on the pecking order will be given a chance to eat after the larger birds and the higher order birds have had their fill. Bigger birds need more and smaller birds need less, it is all according to weight.

Minx, I would assure you that the information my vet and what you have seen posted by Kathy is completely safe for your birds, and you should feel confident that your birds have gotten the proper amount of the drug to insure that they do not have any worms at the end of the treatment period. I will report to you the findings of the fecal exam we plan on doing four days after this worming.

I too know a couple of people who have had Peas( one has had a whole flock free ranging for 20 yrs.) for a long time and never wormed them. I 'm not so sure I'd call it luck though, I tend to think that when the birds and even other animals have been on a piece of ground for a long time they will build up some sort of tolerance to the parasites they share that ground with. I think they can tolerate a certain load of parasites and still remain relatively healthy, however when something else happens like an injury or disease they are probably less likely to recover, and the cause of their demise would appear to be that injury or disease, unless a necropsy is done. Generally people who don't worm are not going to do a necropsy on a dead bird either. We buried a barn cat last Friday, she died of old age and hyperthyroidism from the looks and behavior of her, she was 19 years old. When we first moved here there were 2 feral female cats in our barn the first one we caught right away and got her fixed, the second was smarter, it took us a year and 2 litters of kittens before we trapped her in a Havahart trap and had her done, this cat was one of her feral kittens from the first litter, we managed to get this cat tamed down enough that we were able to catch her when she was 6 months and get her fixed as well, but she never let us catch her again. At that time she got wormed and vaccinated, but we all know that doesn't last 18 years, yet this cat appeared perfectly healthy all that time. I am sure she had worms, it just seems she was able to live a long healthy life in spite of them. I have 2 serama hens who were given to us by a neighbor, they have lived on his land and ours all their lives 5+ years now, this spring I got 2 SLW chicks from a feed store and hatched some ebay Barnevelder eggs, so I have 4 young chickens ranging with the seramas, had to worm these as one pooped out a wriggling mass of round worms at my feet, I followed everyone around and discovered all 4 new ones were infested, nothing in the serama poo. Perhaps they instinctively find and eat certain plants that are toxic to the worms I really have no idea, it is just obvious that after awhile they seem to do okay with them. Now even though I feel this way I would never stop worming, but the only Pea I ever lost to worms was a 6 month old that had been here 2 months when he died, he was very skittish and when we picked up his body he had no weight, so I'm fairly confidant it was worms, person I got him from said they had just wormed him, so I didn't. Don't know if he came with the worms or if the worms here were just different and he had not had a chance to become tolerant of them. In 20 years of having Peafowl I've met and spoken to lots of other people who have or had them and many had them for quite a while, but I can probably count on 1 hand the number of them that wormed their birds. This may also help explain why worming in water seems to be effective when on paper it really shouldn't be.

 

[bdfive]

I should have mentioned my pens are 10 by 30 feet and the peafowl take turns getting out into the 1,400 square foot courtyard with 8 foot high fencing and heavy bird netting hoisted across the center to 12 feet being held up by two 12 foot steel posts. It's really nice with Live Oak tree limbs above for shade but plenty of sun to dry out the poo in the courtyard. All together there is about 180 feet of cedar logs to roost on anywhere from 5 feet up to 7 feet in the habitat. I pick up big poo beneath the roosts and elsewhere in the pens twice a day. We have large cedar chips on most of the ground. About 8 years ago we cleared a lot of cedar, rented a chipper and chipped it. It's aged so not a problem to the birds. We're in the Texas Hill Country so ground mostly consists of maybe a foot of dirt with rocks then solid limestone. Not a great habitat for insects to live in not to say they aren't here. As the cedar chips decay and I add material for their dirt bathing the soil improves so I may have a problem sometime in the future. I mentioned in a prior post there being earthworms in the dirt bath area I added sand to yesterday. Discovered them as I turned the sand in with a shovel and dug out some more rocks. We don't get a lot of rain here so ground is dry most of the time. Sun beats down when shade not present and dries the poo out. Probably plenty of reasons I've never seen a worm in my birds poo and I look often. Also they are well cared for getting Purina Gamebird feed, Farmer's Helper Ultrakibble (some of ingredients are: dried peas, fish meal, sunflower oil, salmon meal, cinnamon, dried carrots, celery, beets, parsley, lettuce, watercress and spinach). Also give them fruit and veggies, mealworms occasionally, shrimp, sweet potatoes, etc; etc; My birds are healthy. Some free range. My intentions are to rotate letting them free range a little when it's their turn in the courtyard. Don't think I'll trust my Greens.....they are probably in prison for the duration. Problem with letting them out into the courtyard and to free range is they don't much like their turn in the pens.

Sorry.....I'm babbling......and probably doing a little bragging, LOL!!! Just want to point out a lot of factors may come into why I don't have a worm problem. I hope to reduce my flock some more.....have sold all but 4 of the 2014 hatch and will probably sell the White as soon as it can be sexed. Giving up my Black Shoulder pair to make room for my coming of age White and Silver Pied. It's sometimes difficult to find good homes but I work hard at it. The Blk Shoulder are going to a ranch close by ................ great home. I may sell him a few more. There are some peafowl I'm so bonded with they'll never leave. It would be like giving up my 2 precious Mini Aussie dogs.

OK, I'll shut up now!!!