Self Sufficient Breeding vs. Dual Purpose Breeding

[3KillerBs]

I didn't with you because you were being arrogant, and saying that you doubt I can do what I've done for years. I don't deal with disrespectful people like you. Show respect and you'll get respect. Plus, I didn't want and rave or make wild accusations...that was you. So, I basically kicked your disrespectful butt to the curb.

ROFLOL!!!!!!

Once again, try reading what I actually SAID.

How did chickens survive since God created them?

Chickens are creatures of the tropics and subtropics.

If your environment is sufficiently close their native environment they can survive in a feral condition without any human inputs.

If you supplement their diet by providing additional food sources above what the natural environment provides -- enriching the environment with field crops, the feed spillage from other animals, undigested grain to be picked from other animals' manure, etc. they can survive even if you aren't feeding them directly.

If I open my coop doors, take down my feeders and waterers, and wish my chickens luck in this environment -- an impoverished ecology due to the poor quality of the soil even though I'm at the border of climate zone 7b and 8a --they'd be dead by spring even if I kept games.

 

[NatJ]

Answer me this....How did chickens survive since God created them?

Chickens didn't. Wild Jungle Fowl did.
Chickens (as we know them) did not exist until people started selectively breeding them.

There have always been predators of all kinds for every animal, but they've all survived through the centuries.

Many animals have NOT survived. They died out. Or certain colors died out. Or certain sizes died out. Or they died out in one place but not in another place.

And as it applies specifically to your project of breeding bigger chickens: there may be one size that can survive and a bigger size that can NOT survive. What sizes those are, in your environment and with your predators, is something you will probably find out when you try it.

God didn't create the dependant domestic chickens, man did. That's why I'm sticking with the ones man hasn't domesticated.

So are they perfect the way they are, created that way by God?
Or would they be better if they were bigger?

If you are trying to breed them bigger, then you are just like everyone else who has bred and changed domestic chickens: you want to make them different from the truly wild ones, in a way you think is better.

 

[Christiancowboy]

Can you just choose the biggest of the current games, and breed them together, and see if some of their chicks grow bigger yet? That should let them keep all the other traits they have that you like.


Whether domestic chickens are better or worse depends on what you want them to do.

If you want them to sustain themselves by foraging, I agree the domestic breeds are worse.

But if you want to provide feed and have the chickens give you more eggs or more meat or both, then the domestic breeds are better.

What you personally want from your chickens is different than what many other people want from their chickens. I am glad that so many different kinds of chickens exist, so each person can find the kind that is right for them.

I'm trying that too, but pea combed game chickens are a little smaller for the most part then straight comb game chickens. My goal is black, pea comb or rose comb. I've got some 3/4 game chicks that I'm excited about, and can't wait to see how they turn out. I had some black ameraurcanas, and sold them because they weren't heritage. When in truth, they were way better foragers then these other dual purpose heritage breeds I kept, and am crossing. I'm thinking about getting some more of them to cross with. Maybe, crossing them with game will bring back the broodiness I'm wanting.

 

[NatJ]

I'm trying that too, but pea combed game chickens are a little smaller for the most part then straight comb game chickens. My goal is black, pea comb or rose comb.

Then I would try using some straight comb game chickens. Comb type is controlled by very few genes, as compared with the number of genes affecting some of the other traits you want.

I've got some 3/4 game chicks that I'm excited about, and can't wait to see how they turn out. I had some black ameraurcanas, and sold them because they weren't heritage. When in truth, they were way better foragers then these other dual purpose heritage breeds I kept, and am crossing. I'm thinking about getting some more of them to cross with. Maybe, crossing them with game will bring back the broodiness I'm wanting.

 

[Caw]

The extra size I'm talking about is maybe 8 ounces. That's just something I'm experimenting with. My main flock is pure game.
As for what my birds eat in the winter, not be smart alicky, but I really don't know. I just see them constantly foraging. Game chickens have built in survival skills, that have been breed out of domestic chickens. They eat things that domestic chickens won't eat. When there's snow on the ground, both domestic and game will be scratching through the snow. But the domestic chickens won't have much in their craws, while the game chickens craws are fairly full. So, I have to supplement the domestic chickens. Heck, I have to supplement the domestic chickens right now. I call them my worthless chickens.

Ah, okay. My thinking was that while I don’t really know what my chickens are eating at a given time, I pretty much know what plants, insects, etc are plentiful here and wondering what particular things might still be around in the winter.

God created chickens to be self sufficient. Man has decided that he can improve on what The Lord did. So, he's breed the self sustainability out of chickens, and turned them into domestic, worthless, dependant chickens.

I’m not religious, but I can see what you’re saying. I would temper the self-sufficiency with something like “in the environment they’re adapted to” though. Kentucky or Missouri in the wintertime not being too similar to what a natural environment would be for a wild chicken, I find the topic of what they would be eating to sustain themselves pretty interesting.

 

[Christiancowboy]

I don't want straight comb chickens in my blood lines. Plus, I'm on the lookout for bigger pea combed game chickens that are black.

Then I would try using some straight comb game chickens. Comb type is controlled by very few genes, as compared with the number of genes affecting some of the other traits you want.

 

[MeanCheek]

Answer me this....How did chickens survive since God created them? There have always been predators of all kinds for every animal, but they've all survived through the centuries. God didn't create the dependant domestic chickens, man did. That's why I'm sticking with the ones man hasn't domesticated.

Everyone please forgive the foolish question, but hasn't 'Man' also created/domesticated game chickens too? Game chickens are domestic birds, correct?

OP, you're trying to increase you game chicken's size so that they'll be bigger meat birds? What about Liege Fighters? They are a game breed and I understand they were also bred as meat birds

 

[RiverOtter]

That's why I'm sticking with the ones man hasn't domesticated.

Is someone going to tell him?

I mean, I can see that @NatJ tried, but he used a lot of words and some big ones....

Imma give it a shot; ALL CHICKENS ARE DOMESTICATED

God didn't make chickens.

God made wild birds in an Indian jungle. Humans liked them, and domesticated them and bred them until they were chickens.

If you would like birds that God made, hop a plane to India, or southern Asia and wander around a forest until you find some. They're mean, and flighty, and have stringy meat, and don't lay a lot of eggs, but by all means, have at it!

 

[RiverOtter]

Everyone please forgive the foolish question, but hasn't 'Man' also created/domesticated game chickens too? Game chickens are domestic birds, correct?

OP, you're trying to increase you game chicken's size so that they'll be bigger meat birds? What about Liege Fighters? They are a game breed and I understand they were also bred as meat birds

It's not a foolish question. It is sensible and logical and true, which is why it feels out of place in this thread.

Yes, humans created all chickens, and yes, there are lines of game birds bred to be good meat producers. Not as good as actual meat birds, but at least worth throwing the match-loser into a pot. And some folks have always put their money behind the bigger, heavier opponent, rather than a smaller, faster one. So certainly, the lines are there

 

[Christiancowboy]

Ah, okay. My thinking was that while I don’t really know what my chickens are eating at a given time, I pretty much know what plants, insects, etc are plentiful here and wondering what particular things might still be around in the winter.



I’m not religious, but I can see what you’re saying. I would temper the self-sufficiency with something like “in the environment they’re adapted to” though. Kentucky or Missouri in the wintertime not being too similar to what a natural environment would be for a wild chicken, I find the topic of what they would be eating to sustain themselves pretty interesting.

There's still plantain, clover, and many other things that grow here throughout the winter. Plus, I imagine they're still finding worms, and various other insects that survive in the ground and under leaves in the winter. Like I said before, game chickens have a natural ability to survive on things that domestic chickens won't eat. My game hens come in at night with pretty full craws in the winter, and my dual purpose domestic chickens come in with very little in their craws in the winter. Even now, in the summer, my domestic come in with not a lot in their craws, and need to supplemented to maintain their body weight. It's a shame how many has distroyed every chicken he's touched...