Sled dog breeding

[SternRose]

Hey ok so I want to raise sled dogs, but I don't know what goes into breeding sled dogs. I know it not quite like breeding show/pet dogs. If and when I breed I would only do one litter a year. I know that the b*tches third or forth heat cycle is prim timing. But do the dogs need to be genetic tested and all that expencize stuff? I want to breed labs and huskys. 3 of each breed, 1 male of each breed and 2 females of each breed. One year is ill make for the huskys and the other for the labs. But only one female per year. I don't want to be a back yard breeder. I'm not in it for $$, I'm in it to better the sled dogs( and my team) I won't revered until the last litter is sold. I'm raising the dogs for fun and for a hobby. I won't compete. I will only breed when I can keep the WHOLE litter( hopefully it won't come down to that) if I do breed I'm gonna sell the pups for $150-$250 with NO BREEDING rights! Unless its to a nother musher or to a breeder who plans to show( the dogs I'm getting have show back grounds) so tips and a HELPING GUIDE are much needed.

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,Sternrose,
I will say this as gently as possible based on 15 yrs. experience breeding working. show, and service collies.


You don't want to breed dogs. You just think you do.
In 5 years you will look back and remember this email and
say. 'She was right" Sadder and wiser now, I know ,
"she was right." Get some hideously expensive poultry and
breed them or a 600. pair of show rabbits and breed them.
That said, Yes, you need to test for everything. No, the
mushers will not touch your show stock, they have a
different set of requiements in their dogs.
Testing runs 100's per dog and no one will touch your
Labs or Huskies without it. Yes, you will be a backyard
breeder, that is what people will call you...unless you
compete or show or breed dogs capable of these things
and put them in the hands of those will succeed. Having
your dogs try and fail doesn't count. Figure at least 1000.
to put a litter on the gound and that is dirt cheap. Average
is about 2000 to raise them to selling age. Don't get males.
Pay a stud fee instead and use the money to upgrade
your female stock. Anyone who knows labs and huskies
knows there is no quality in a 150. to 300. dog. You will
get your heart broken and lay in bed in tears at night
because some internet troll had your reputation for lunch.
No one will take you seriously for the 1st 5 years. That is
an unwritten rule. Until then, you are just another novice
passing thru. You will be called dirty names and so will
your dogs. Other novices trying to climb political ladders
will try to use you for a stepping stone. In sled dogs
there is no short cut to success. Working dogs need a
special touch . They need to be bred with special attention
to their proper psyches. Without proper temperament,
you don't have a proper working dog. You just have a dog
with an urge to do "something".
Best Regards,
Karen
Bellwether Collies , retired ( 1995-2009)
Breeder of rough and smooth collies successful
in 12 different venues. Including Service, Show, Stud,
Mushing, Lure Coursing , and Weight Pull.
Breeder of the only collie in the breed to obtain both
Heel To Music and Canine Freestyle Dance Championships.
( if these Chs. seem frivolous to you, stop and think of the
lithe, flexible body and flexible intellect it took to achieve
that at 11 yrs. old).

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Just a bit about hip dysplasia: this is a progressive disease that can get worse over time. Generally puppies and young dogs can be very active, but this is not an indicator of hip dysplasia (or any degenerative joint disease) However, running a dog on bad hips can cause really bad problems later on, even if they ran like a champ all those years.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
actually, yes I DO breed. German Shepherd Dogs. Dog breeding is something that is a lifetime love for those who want to do it well. You don't just start off with selling $200 pups without papers and build a reputation from there. The only "reputation" you are building is that of a backyard breeder. You might not start selling pups at the same price as someone who has proven over 30 years that they produce quality dogs but you don't charge just a couple $$ more than the local rescue either. You start off by purchasing the best quality dog that you can affod. So, usually a slightly older pup that has been health-tested and passed her OFAs at least. And has a good level of basic obedience and (in the case of working dogs) has proven thats he has the instinct drive and ability to do the job that she was born to do. Then you spend about a zillion dollars (I don't add up my dog expenses. It would make my husband cry!) training, working, titling that dog to get her (and your!) name out in the community that you hope to sell dogs to. In your case, that would be by entering every event related to dog sleds. You would likely also enter UKC weight pull events and other related activities. Maybe even carting as a side fun hobby if that floats your boat. Then you start looking at stud dogs. You go through every generation of the pedigree and you learn every detail about the dogs in it. You find out what kind of workers they were. You find out about missing teeth. You find out if any pups were born with cryptorchidism. You find out what the hip/elbow scores were. Eye tests. You dig out all of the dirt that you can find behind that dog and you compare it to the faults in your dog's pedigree. You look for a dog that doesn't share any weaknesses with your dog and is the best match for her strengths. A dog might be a great distance runner but if almost every other dog in his pedigree is a sprinter, he is most likely not going to father the next distance champion. Once you have been involved in the dog world and people (at least locals) know you and your dog then you can start planning to breed. You line up potential buyers (at least close to twice the amount of pups you expect to have). You might even end up giving away a few dogs to those you know in your competitive field - you want to get your dogs and your name out there "HEY! I bred these dogs and look what they have accomplished!!" That way, your next litter will have even more interested in it. You keep on working your dogs, even dogs that you don't intend to breed. You do obedience. You go to events as a spectator and you learn how to evaluate dogs. You learn how to guess, at a glance, if a dog is going to have what it takes. You get with a breeder who has been producing quality dogs for years and ask them to help you learn how to evaluate a litter of pups for what you want to do. You learn how to match each puppy to the best home. You learn how to know, at 8 weeks old, who is likely to be the next champion and which pup will be happiest in a pet home, camping with the family and being loved on by a pack of kids. You are dealing with living creatures. Animals who, if you cut a corner or think that a test doesn't matter, will be the ones to pay the price for your mistakes. No, you aren't going to be perfect. Shoot, even if you do every thing right, nature has a way of making it go wrong from time to time. But to not do everything possible to insure that those pups are not only born healthy but live their entire lives to the fullest extent is cruel. It leads to suffering on the part of the dog. There is nothing so heartbreaking as watching a dog who has the drive and fire to work being confined in a body that isn't up to the task. A dog who keeps pulling despite the pain, hiding it until he is out of the harness (or out of the field). Who you see struggling to push his body to do things that he can't do even though he is still a young dog. The heartbreak the owners feel when they have to make the decision to end that suffering because, even though his body is weak, he keeps pushing and makes his health problems worse. Or the dog that in the middle of a happy game of fetch at the park suddenly falls over of a heart problem. The owner who wakes up in the dead of night to a puppy having a seizure.

 

[Windrider]

Your dog is gorgeous! How long did it take you to train her? Got any tips for a beginner?

The large contacts have me concerned. The dogs rarely work on the full sized versions, and when they do, it's at a walk and with a spotter, just in case. I'd love for my dogs to compete, but not at the risk of injury. I think Dawn would be good in compitition, Sasha doesn't seem to have the drive needed, and my puppy needs time to mature before getting serious with him.

Thank you! I don't know how to answer the question "How long did it take you to train her?" LOL I don't know anyone in agility who ever thinks the training is done! Windy is my first serious agility dog, though I did train and trial a bit with my old girl, a rough collie.

I started training Windy when she was 9 weeks old. Just usual puppy stuff plus following my hand through "course like movements" (front and rear crosses on the flat) and then going through the uprights of jumps without a bar, around cones, stuff like that. She was doing full length tunnels and chutes on her own by 12 weeks. Was doing full courses with lowered contacts and open channel weaves by 6 or 7 months. I am pretty sure she thinks she was born to do agility. ;-)



I started jumping her at her competition height at 1 1/2 years (large breeds should wait until 2 at least). We made our debut in AKC Novice the weekend after her 2nd birthday. Blasted through AKC Novice and Open that summer, plus USDAA Starters (which is more difficult). I can't trial during the school year (I teach weekends), so this summer with Windy being three years old, we finished AKC Excellent and started the long slog through Masters towards our MACH (Master Agility Champion) - those 20 double Qs are going to take a few years, I think. Also finished USDAA Advanced, but will wait until next summer to start their Masters, since that organization has crazy, world-title type Masters courses, which we aren't ready for.

Windy is a very intense and driven Sheltie who lives for agility. Most of our current training has to do with training me! LOL She is so fast I have GOT to be timely in my handling or she just makes up her own course!







Any tips for a beginner: Well, agility is so hands-on, it would be difficult giving advice without seeing your dog run. What are you having problems with? Definitely tell the owner of that dogwalk he needs to at least put a coat of paint with a good amount of sand in it for that running surface. The rubberized stuff is SO great, but a sanded surface is okay and what everyone used to use.

Any just because everyone is posting stacked pictures: Windy free stacked at 10 weeks. Her breeder has bred some of the greats in the Shelties, so Windy has awesome structure and is totally sound and never seems to hurt herself even though she throws herself around a course. She wasn't shown in breed due to being a bit large and "butch" for a girl and her back-skull is slightly sloped.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
ok, I will ask questions. What tests do they have? What registry are they registered with? You say in another post that pups are tested before they go home, except for a few DNA tests, there is nothing that you can test puppies for. OFA is a min of 4-6 months and even then results aren't official. CERF (eyes) doesn't have a minimum age but needs to be re-certified every year. There is much more to being a good breeder than just "don't pump out puppies" Also, charging a different price - $400 with papers, $200 with out - is against the rules of every legitimate registry. If a buyer (or window shopper) was to complain to the AKC, the breeder could be fined, possibly banned for life from registering another litter. The simple fact that their "expensive" dogs are $400 tells me that it's highly unlikely that they are doing all of the testing. Just to cover the prenatal care and then the vet care on the litter and food, first shots and worming, isn't going to be covered at that price. A well-bred, health tested, proven lab is going to run easily twice that, often more. Sibes are in the $1000 range. A proven sled dog can easily go for a couple thousand. http://www.sleddogcentral.com/classifieds/dogsforsale_3.asp#Wallin If you want to insure that you have good homes to choose from, you need to start with the best. Any knowledgeable buyer is going to want to see the history of your dogs. If they see that your foundation stock came from someone selling $400/$200 without paper dogs, they are going to turn around and walk away. If you want to sell field labs, they are going to want to see generations of health tested and field tested dogs. They want to see, at the bare minimum, dogs that are out in the marsh retrieving ducks every season. Even better, dogs that work in the field and who are titled in hunt tests. If you are looking to breed showline labs, they are going to want to see generations of champions. Not one or two champion dogs 4 or 5 generations back. They are going to want to see generations of health tests. When it comes to breeding, the idea is "better to shoot for the stars and miss than to aim for the gutter and hit it." You say that you are wanting to do this the right way. And that you want to produce and sell healthy quality dogs. Yet you are pointing out as your mentors people who are, at best, doing the bare minimum. From your descriptions, it sounds like they own a boy dog and a girl dog and they make puppies. The vet probably says that they are healthy but that isn't the same as having tested proven healthy dogs. I'll use my breed as an example. I have German Shepherds. My boy is from long lines of health tested proven working dogs. He is titled in obedience and rally. He has been examined by several impartial judges in the breed. My stud fee is $700. Pups sell for $1200. We don't even have a mating yet but there are several people waiting to see what ***** is chosen so that they have the opportunity to get on the waiting list and pay a deposit. I am a member of a state "gsd lovers group" There are pups advertised every day - $500. A few days or weeks later, they are marked down to $300. Then to $200. It's not uncommon for the unsold pups to get dumped at the pound or just along a dirt road somewhere because it's too expensive to keep feeding them or because the breeder has another litter on the way.

 

[res]

Another FYI regarding females in heat. They can get bred through chain link fence. It happens a lot more often than people realize....

Supervise ANY time outdoors, or even better, like others have said, all outdoor time takes place on a leash until the heat cycle passes.

 

[Starfire669]

Heres nala stacked:

Looking at her as a dog lover and pet owner she is lovely.

But looking at her as a breeder, I would recommend getting her spayed. She is unsound in conformation and should not be bred. Her front and her rear are straight. Siberians have angled shoulders for endurance and shock absorbtion. Straight rears dont have the power and propulsion needed, and lead to arthritis, which could be the hip pains you mentioned earlier. And any dog with bad hips should not be bred anyway. Also that tail is so snapped to her back that all her pups will have it as well.. She has an insuffient stop. And her chest is not as deep as it should be. These are major faults in Siberians.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I think my point may be missed. Activity level and ability to pull is not an indicator of joint health. You need to do radiographs (x-rays) to tell if a dog has the possibility of being dysplastic later in life. The surgeries to fix problems later on is crazy expensive, so I would not purchase a working dog like this without an OFA hip rating. I'm just trying to give you tips to protect your investment, because it's important that breeders you purchase your dogs from do these tests.

Also note that just because a parent is OFA good or excellent does not mean all the offspring will be. Occasionally a good dog will throw puppies that have hip problems.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
$200 without papers? so they are selling untested unproven dogs. Honestly, any good home is not going to even look at dogs from that kind of line. You can't even make up expenses from one litter on that kind of price unless you are feeding Ol' Roy and cutting every corner possible. You can't x-ray, work, or prove your dogs and charge that price unless you started out independently wealthy and are just looking for a way to burn money. Any knowledgeable buyer will know that they can get the same quality of dog for $50 at the local pound. Please do some research into what makes a good breeder vs someone who is just pumping out puppies. Both breeds you are talking about have a plethora have genetic health problems. And, since many of these issues might not show up until a dog is older, you are going to have raised several litters all of whom are going to be likely carriers of these same genetic problems.