speaking of guns....

[Davaroo]

The .410 single shot is very appealing. It is low priced intitally, low in recoil and dead simple. I was waiting for someone to mention it. And I'd like to suggest you NOT get the .410. Heres why.

Background:
The .410 ga. isn't a measure of guage at all, it is an oddity in the world of unrifled weapons.
The guage of a shotgun refers to how many lead balls of the given bore diameter it takes to make a pound. With a 12 ga, it's 12, a 20 ga. its 20, and so on. This stuff is obscure and goes back to the English system of centuries ago.
But the .410 doesn't follow that and actually refers to the bore diameter itself, more rightly called the caliber. So this means it has a bore diameter of 4 tenths of an inch. Go ahead and measure that out with a ruler - we'll wait.

Not very big is it?

This means:
- The shot pattern is dismal.
This is because of the next item....

- The quantity of shot in a shell is miniscule.
I mean, how much shot can you fit in a shell no bigger 'round than your little finger?

- The power isn't there.
Not much powder in there, either. Less powder means smaller bang. Small bang means the teensy amount of shot won't carry very far. When it does get there, not much of it is there to do the work intended.

- Ammo is more expensive than 12 ga., believe it or not.
Last I checked here, a box of .410 was $10+. 12 ga. field loads were $3 and change. Some less, on sale. This means I can buy 2-3 boxes of 12 ga field loads for the same money.

More shot per charge, more power, longer range, better results, lower cost. Pretty simple math favoring the 12 ga., eh?

The .410 shotgun is really an experts weapon and I admire anyone who can consistently score with one. The combination of relatively low power and microscopic shot density is the culprit.

We said the .410 was a measure of caliber. I personally believe that the best personal defense rounds outside of 12 ga. start with .40. So there is merit in that caliber size.
If that is your choice for defense, get one of these from the rather short list:

.45ACP,
.45 LC,
.40 S&W,
.44Mag/Spl
.41 Mag.

For everything else a shotgun should do, get a 12 ga.

 

[Finn]

Well I'll throw in my 2 cents in this debate...granted I have bad shoulders I still shoot my Remington 12 ga. 870 express pump quite a bit (and it hurts the next day) you should always practice and stay familiar with your gun(s). If you need to take out a predator (2 or 4 legged) your adrenaline will be up enough where a shot or two from a larger gun will be not noticed body wise til later on when everything is hopefully OK.

Walking out of your pole-shed and having a momma bear AND her cubs 20 feet away from me and the coop is a severe pucker factor. Bigger is better and its better to solve the problem quickly if need be.

.22's are for squirrels
.410's are for really big squirrels or possum
20 ga. injures chihuahuas
12 ga solves problems quickly
50 cal BMG shatters your eardrums

PS whichever one you decide on,do it safely and practice !

 

[angelmarie]

Ok, its on were breaking out the AR-15 which i believe is the M16 now, maybe the M14

 

[nautical_bouy]

Elderoo is right on, and I'll add because of the length of the shot coloum, the .410 usually has a very small pattern compaired with the 12 or 20.


Angelmarie,, the AR-15 is a civilian version of the M-16.
The M-14 is a larger rifle that fires the.308 Winchester round.

But who wants to rely on such little things like them when I feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing I can grab the .458 Lott out of the safe if the cape buffalo ever try and eat my tomatos and corn or some herd of crazy elephants decides to raid the chicken feed

 

[Davaroo]

Ok, its on were breaking out the AR-15 which I believe is the M16 now, maybe the M14

Youre right - M16 is the military version of the civilian AR-15, or vice-versa, depending on how you look at it. M-14 is the former military issue rifle, prior to the M-16.

Both vastly different, both have their merits as such things go. Since this is about pests and predators, lets take it there, and leave all bravado aside. No sense inviting the label "gun nut."

The AR-15 has the advantage of firepower, is lighter and more compact. The M-16 is the current issue US military rifle, if that tells you anything. It is not commercially avaliable.
In either version, it fires a small, high velocity cartridge, the 5.56MM NATO/.223 WIN, actually a .22 caliber. But it leaves the .22 rimfires in the dirt, at 3,000+ ft./sec.
This is very potent stuff on most varmints, both 2 and 4 legged, although is overkill on small game like squirrels. It can be shot long range, but is better suited to closer targets inside 200 yds... and that might be stretching it.
Ammo is plentiful and not too expensive and it can be had in many rifle configurations beside the mil-spec "M"/"AR" models.
Not really suited to hunting larger game, like deer.

The M-14 is a refinement of the old M1 Garand, seen in WWII. It is heavier and holds fewer rounds, but whoooowee, it packs a whallop. It fires the 7.62MM NATO/.308 WIN and is .30 cal. This was designed as a shorter version of the .30-06 and was derived from the earlier .300 Savage - extremely potent stuff, mucho-power.
It is a true 1000 yard cartridge, and our friend nautical_buoy has surey shot this category at Camp Perry matches. I believe the military still uses it as a long range infantry support rifle, ie, a sniper rifle.
Again ammo is plentiful and costs a bit more.
It is possibly the best all around North American hunting round, although is too much for smaller game. It, too, can be found in other rifle configurations other than the military models and is one of the most popular big game hunting rounds available. It's my personal choice for deer.

The best thing about these two are the cartridges they shoot, not so much the rifles under discussion. They are highly versatile and commonly available rounds, both key points in their favor. Nearly every WalMart or country store will have them.
Taken as a "matched pair" in inexpensive single-shot or bolt action rifles, they come very close to covering almost all the pest, predator and hunting situations you might encounter.​

 

[nautical_bouy]

For more than a few years the issued rifles for a sniper team were,,, sniper= Remington 700 BDL,, 30-06 wearing a 3x9 Redfield. How many millions of those are owned by hunters??? Goes to show it's more the shooter than the rifle.
The snipers spotter carried a Springfield M-14, and there is no shortage of those on the range, I think there would be many more if they wen't so pricy

 

[Davaroo]

For more than a few years the issued rifles for a sniper team were,,, sniper= Remington 700 BDL,, 30-06 wearing a 3x9 Redfield. How many millions of those are owned by hunters??? Goes to show it's more the shooter than the rifle.
The snipers spotter carried a Springfield M-14, and there is no shortage of those on the range, I think there would be many more if they wen't so pricey

See there? 'Ya learn something new everyday. Thanks N_B.​

 

[warcard]

Tennessee has an active Outdoors Women group: Http://www.state.tn.us/twra/outdoorswoman.html
They might be able to help you find someone in the area to help you. Keep trying the local hunting club. Also try
http://www.tngunowners.com/dynamics/
they have a list of gun shops in TN. If you can find a place that does concealed carry training they can probably also point you to a good dealer.

Don't bother the local sheriff, half of the law enforcement personnel got into their field to be "bad" and carry a gun, which they are taught to immediately discharge all rounds from in the "general" direction of a target

Take what you've learned here, find something you can be fairly comfortable with and Practice! A 12-ga is a good first weapon, not too much aiming necessary, but enough power to get your point across. Hold the weapon correctly and the recoil doesn't hurt as much, keep the stock tight against your shoulder.

5'2" was 140lbs when I started shooting, won't tell you what I am now

Jen

 

[Davaroo]

Don't bother the local sheriff, half of the law enforcement personnel got into their field to be "bad" and carry a gun, which they are taught to immediately discharge all rounds from in the "general" direction of a target

I wont touch this one....

Take what you've learned here, find something you can be fairly comfortable with and Practice! A 12-ga is a good first weapon, not too much aiming necessary, but enough power to get your point across. Hold the weapon correctly and the recoil doesn't hurt as much, keep the stock tight against your shoulder.

Some of the best advice. But don't kid yourself on the aiming part. Every weapon should be aimed, closely and with purpose.​

 

[warcard]

... don't kid yourself on the aiming part. Every weapon should be aimed, closely and with purpose.

Yes it should. But (I know everything after but is BS) at least if you are a little off from trying to actually hit a living thing for the first time, you will likely catch your target in the scatter.

Oh yeah, skeet is fun and helps to teach you how to shoot a moving target.​